Pathy would not turn over this morning

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Wes
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Pathy would not turn over this morning

Postby Wes » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:50 pm

2001 3.5L, 212k miles. Got in car this morning, turn key, weird noise and crank crank crank. No turn over. Tried again. Crank crank crank. No luck. Spent about 20 min trying to figure out what was going on, research, kick tire, then try again, crank crank crank, getting close to turning over, crank crank crank start. Then a ton of white smoke blows out the exhaust for about 20 sec or more. Took it to the mechanic and had them give it the once over, pull codes, etc. They couldn't find anything wrong with it other than a knock sensor code. They cleared that. It starts and runs fine now. Any ideas? Here is a link to the video with sound. The cranking noise is not normal. It has a high pitched sound that goes along with it.

https://imgur.com/gallery/o3t1o5A


Wes
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Pathy would not turn over this morning

Postby Wes » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:47 am

So the mechanic had a couple ideas such as possible cam or crank sensor. But that doesn't explain the white smoke. Now white smoke indicates coolant is being burned. My coolant level seems normal.

Is it possible I have a small leak in a gasket that when the car sits for a few days the coolant leaks into a cylinder and then caused the engine to be hard to start?

How much coolant does it take to causes a problem?

Also suggested that the car flooded trying to start over and over but I don't think excess gas causes white smoke does it?

What would you do to get ahead of this problem? My head gasket is fairly new - 2-3 years old.

Hooligan
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Postby Hooligan » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:16 pm

Excess air causes white smoke. More than likely it's really steam from a coolant leak.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:13 pm

Was it pure white smoke (steam) or blue-ish white smoke (oil)? My thinking is that the engine got flooded and washed the cylinder walls and caused a loss of compression. Once the engine got enough compression to start, it was fine. Loss of compression can be caused by fuel being dumped into the engine, such as too high fuel pressure, leaking pressure regulator diaphragm or leaking fuel injectors. Another reason could be low compression duel to poor ring sealing. I would consider performing an engine compression test and a fuel pressure test & fuel pressure leakdown test. If it is steam, then there is a possibility of a blown head gasket. They are not a common problem on these engines but still possible. Engine compression test would help confirm that as would a cylinder leakdown test.

Wes
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Postby Wes » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:02 am

I am pretty sure it was a white smoke. A very, thick smoke that only lasted 10-20 secs. Much more than your standard moisture white smoke. So much so it made me go "What the hell?"

Finally got the time to get the car out today to give her a once over. Oil appeared a bit low so I checked the cap next and found the below. It looks a lot like oil with coolant in it. What else would that mess be?

https://imgur.com/gallery/qF4SlkU

I don't seem to have any leaks under the car. Next steps?

It has been starting and running fine all week. We haven't been driving it very far, but no externally apparent issues.

Wes
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Postby Wes » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:55 pm

Had to run out to soccer and came back for a more thorough look. Oil was very low. Had to put in 2 quarts to get it to low on the stick. Which is odd. Where did all that oil go?

I spent some time watching the radiator for bubbles that might indicate combustion gasses in the system. I didnt see any. I mean 20 minutes of idle and no bubbles. Engine has not/did not overheat. Coolant looks very clean.

I think I am supposed to look at the spark plugs, but I ain't dragging the manifold off just yet.

Could anything else cause the goo on the inside of oil cap. The goo was also in the neck of the tube. It must be new because I feel NTB would have told me if they found it at the last oil change.

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:58 pm

It's not uncommon to find a little white custard on the bottom of the oil fill cap as condensation seems to build up there, but what you have looks excessive. It looks like a sign of a blown head gasket. If the head gasket failed between an oil and coolant gallery, it wouldn't overheat. Overheating would occur if the failure is between the coolant jacket and the combustion chamber. Check the coolant reservoir and radiator for signs of oil contamination.

Wes
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Postby Wes » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:28 am

I was unable to positively identify any oil in the reservoir or the radiator. I will keep looking. I going to check the oil again today possibly add some more if needed.

If it is a head gasket failure...

I don't really want to pay for (or do myself because it would take me a week and lots of cursing as I am only shade tree mechanic) the work to replace the head gasket so I am considering hitting it with some blue devil head gasket sealer. I have heard good things about it.

If I were to stop the leak or replace the gasket do I have to replace the radiator because of oil contamination? (i just replaced the darn thing a couple months ago). Or would a flushing suffice?

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:25 pm

I really don't like head gasket additives, but I understand your point. Head gaskets are a real pain on this engine because the front cover and timing chains have to be removed. Plus, you have to be very careful not to mix up the bucket tappets because they are different sizes to adjust the valve clearance (at least they are on the 4.0L...the 3.5L may have bucket tappets with shims of different sizes, but same deal as far as not mixing them up). If the radiator is sludged up, it should be fine.

If you can see the top side of the head (you may need to use an endoscope) and there is no "custard" on it, just only in that oil cap extension, it may not be a head gasket. If the vehicle was used for lots of short trips, it might just be condensation mixed with the oil. I would clean it out real good and keep an eye on it. If the contamination is all over the top of the head or can be seen on the dipstick or in the oil when drained, that would tend to favor a bad head gasket, especially if you are still loosing coolant and there are no leaks.

Wes
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Postby Wes » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:10 am

Everything in Atlanta traffic is a long, short trip. 50 miles a day of varying speed stop n go for the past 5 years!

I am going to hold off on the additive and watch the oil cap. I pulled it yesterday and there was definitely condensation on the underside.

I will keep an eye on it. Thanks for the help.

Wes
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Postby Wes » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:14 am

On a separate note... is it odd that the garage that looked the car over didnt bother to remove the oil cap and notice the collection of sludge? Seems like if I noticed it they should have as well.


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