Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

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Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:17 pm

I just did the ipdm test. The fan started on what appeared to be low then went to high speed mode.

Is the temp guage needle suppose to move during this test ? Meaning go up and down ?


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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:36 pm

Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm
Thanks. I’ll look into procedures to perform the ipdm self test. I recall seeing it on the web before but didn’t take note. Will high and low be performed or high low and medium speed for the fan ? I’m assuming the ipdm test can be done when coolant is still hot ?
The fan only has high/low, no medium, and the IPDM test can be done anytime. You can find how to execute it on PCS-12 here:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2FPCS.pdf
BUT, I just looked up the parameters and the FSM just says it will run the fan, it doesn't say 5 secs low and 5 secs high like most other models. So I'm not sure if running the test will help.

Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm
Where is the location the area I can point and shoot an ir sensor to read coolant temp value ?
Look at EC-29 and 30 for the location. It's a PITA on the VQ40, behind the plenum, but measuring the metal casting anyplace on the back of the righthand head should be pretty close if you can't get an angle on the base of the sensor.

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:38 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:36 pm
Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm
Thanks. I’ll look into procedures to perform the ipdm self test. I recall seeing it on the web before but didn’t take note. Will high and low be performed or high low and medium speed for the fan ? I’m assuming the ipdm test can be done when coolant is still hot ?
The fan only has high/low, no medium, and the IPDM test can be done anytime. You can find how to execute it on PCS-12 here:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2FPCS.pdf
BUT, I just looked up the parameters and the FSM just says it will run the fan, it doesn't say 5 secs low and 5 secs high like most other models. So I'm not sure if running the test will help.

Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:47 pm
Where is the location the area I can point and shoot an ir sensor to read coolant temp value ?
Look at EC-29 and 30 for the location. It's a PITA on the VQ40, behind the plenum, but measuring the metal casting anyplace on the back of the righthand head should be pretty close if you can't get an angle on the base of the sensor.
It reads about 194F after around 20 mins of being parked in garage and switched off. Garage ambient temp was around 100F.

From cold start the previous day , the fan doesn’t run when vehicle is turned on. My question is, should the fan engage and turn on when pressing and turning on the AC? I ask because it didn’t yesterday morning.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:08 pm

No, the fan on an R51 is auxiliary and not just for the condenser. The ECM only turns it on when temperature and/or A/C pressure demands it. But unless the charts in the FSM have a typo, it shouldn't ever be running on high unless the coolant temp tops 221F. That implies your ECM is seeing things, maybe from a bad pin-fit on the ECT input. You really need to put a streaming scanner on it and see what temperature the the ECM thinks the engine is running at.

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:40 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:08 pm
No, the fan on an R51 is auxiliary and not just for the condenser. The ECM only turns it on when temperature and/or A/C pressure demands it. But unless the charts in the FSM have a typo, it shouldn't ever be running on high unless the coolant temp tops 221F. That implies your ECM is seeing things, maybe from a bad pin-fit on the ECT input. You really need to put a streaming scanner on it and see what temperature the the ECM thinks the engine is running at.
I have a basic Autel that can read values, I believe the temp for ECT is what I am looking for right? I will do that whilst driving and fully operational .

I just reviewed the diagram of the sensor, its appears to be right near the area where my coolant heating hoses were replaced a couple of days ago.
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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:46 am

Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:40 pm
I have a basic Autel that can read values, I believe the temp for ECT is what I am looking for right? I will do that whilst driving and fully operational.
Correct.
Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:40 pm
I just reviewed the diagram of the sensor, its appears to be right near the area where my coolant heating hoses were replaced a couple of days ago.
I doubt the problem can be the sensor alone if your gauge is reading correctly. The gauge would need to be off ~30F for the ECM to be switching the fan on high with a normal gauge indication. That's why it's important to stream the readings the ECM is seeing internally.

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:56 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:46 am
Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:40 pm
I have a basic Autel that can read values, I believe the temp for ECT is what I am looking for right? I will do that whilst driving and fully operational.
Correct.
Limey wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:40 pm
I just reviewed the diagram of the sensor, its appears to be right near the area where my coolant heating hoses were replaced a couple of days ago.
I doubt the problem can be the sensor alone if your gauge is reading correctly. The gauge would need to be off ~30F for the ECM to be switching the fan on high with a normal gauge indication. That's why it's important to stream the readings the ECM is seeing internally.
I’ve been viewing the live data via the odb2 scanner. After about 20-30 mins of driving the ECT temperature shows 105C . Continues to show the same value even when driving on interstate roads with no traffic cruising at around 60mph. So in essence the live data is showing temps of 104-105C all the time after vehicle has been warmed up fully. So I guess that’s why the electric fan is told to go to high speed mode. Thoughts? Thanks.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:44 pm

Yep, 105 is 221F which equates exactly to the cutoff for high speed. The question is, does the gauge reflect that? There are no gradations on an R51 gauge except a sort-of hot marker, so has it maybe been creeping higher over time and lulling you into thinking the reading is normal? I'd try a fresh ECT sensor first and see if it changes both the gauge and what the ECM is seeing. Then you can decide if maybe the cluster gauge is mis-reading and the engine really is hot, or if the ECM is seeing things that aren't there.

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:56 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:44 pm
Yep, 105 is 221F which equates exactly to the cutoff for high speed. The question is, does the gauge reflect that? There are no gradations on an R51 gauge except a sort-of hot marker, so has it maybe been creeping higher over time and lulling you into thinking the reading is normal? I'd try a fresh ECT sensor first and see if it changes both the gauge and what the ECM is seeing. Then you can decide if maybe the cluster gauge is mis-reading and the engine really is hot, or if the ECM is seeing things that aren't there.
Sounds like a good idea to change the ECT sensor. In regards to the guage cluster needle on the vehicle the needle sits just a little below halfway mark all the time when reaches full operating temperature.

I did point them IR towards the rear of the engine block near what I think is the ECT sensor location. It read 216F. So about right perhaps ? Could it possibly be the viscous fan clutch or maybe the electric fan and it’s control unit ?

This is the area I pointed the IR sensor to.
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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:04 pm

Limey wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:56 pm
Sounds like a good idea to change the ECT sensor. In regards to the guage cluster needle on the vehicle the needle sits just a little below halfway mark all the time when reaches full operating temperature.

I did point them IR towards the rear of the engine block near what I think is the ECT sensor location. It read 216F. So about right perhaps ? Could it possibly be the viscous fan clutch or maybe the electric fan and it’s control unit ?

This is the area I pointed the IR sensor to.
It could very well be that your fan clutch is under-performing and making the ECM run the auxiliary to keep it cool, and the IR would seem to confirm that the ECM's view of the situation is the correct one. But that means you have a bad temp gauge. I just checked the WD and the R51's went to CAN temperature signals pretty early, even the '06's had no separate wire to the cluster. The signal is from the ECM via the CANbus, which means your needle isn't reading right.

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:45 am

VStar650CL wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:04 pm
Limey wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:56 pm
Sounds like a good idea to change the ECT sensor. In regards to the guage cluster needle on the vehicle the needle sits just a little below halfway mark all the time when reaches full operating temperature.

I did point them IR towards the rear of the engine block near what I think is the ECT sensor location. It read 216F. So about right perhaps ? Could it possibly be the viscous fan clutch or maybe the electric fan and it’s control unit ?

This is the area I pointed the IR sensor to.
It could very well be that your fan clutch is under-performing and making the ECM run the auxiliary to keep it cool, and the IR would seem to confirm that the ECM's view of the situation is the correct one. But that means you have a bad temp gauge. I just checked the WD and the R51's went to CAN temperature signals pretty early, even the '06's had no separate wire to the cluster. The signal is from the ECM via the CANbus, which means your needle isn't reading right.
Thanks. Are you saying the temp needle on the speedo gauges should be showing a higher value than what it’s currently showing when the engine coolant temp is at 221F?

It so that would still leave me with the underlying cause as to why the coolant temp are a steady 221F all the time for me. It might even be the original radiator not operating correctly.

I have the viscous fan a gentle spin by hand and it felt slightly firm and not loose.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:14 am

Limey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:45 am
Thanks. Are you saying the temp needle on the speedo gauges should be showing a higher value than what it’s currently showing when the engine coolant temp is at 221F?
Yes, your cluster gauge is under-indicating. If it isn't non-linear, you might be able to fix it cheap by simply popping the needle off and relocating it higher. The faceplates aren't hard to remove, it's all plastic pawls. Even if that screws up the reading at the bottom, it's obviously more important for it to read right at the top.
Limey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:45 am
It so that would still leave me with the underlying cause as to why the coolant temp are a steady 221F all the time for me. It might even be the original radiator not operating correctly.

I have the viscous fan a gentle spin by hand and it felt slightly firm and not loose.
There are lots of things that can make an engine run hot. Test the clutch both cold and warm, it should give you a lot more resistance when warm. If that's good, start with some old school touch-and-feel diagnosis. The outlet hose on the radiator should be cooler than the inlet but not lots cooler. If it is, then your radiator has an issue or something is blocking the flow like a collapsed outlet hose. If the radiator seems to be clear, then use your IR on the thermostat outlet and top hose. The outlet should be a few degrees hotter than the thermostat rating and there shouldn't be much difference in temp between the 'stat end of the hose and the radiator end. If it's a lot hotter than rated or the temp falls way off across the length of the hose, suspect a bad 'stat that isn't opening all the way.

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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:32 pm

VStar650CL wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 8:14 am
Limey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:45 am
Thanks. Are you saying the temp needle on the speedo gauges should be showing a higher value than what it’s currently showing when the engine coolant temp is at 221F?
Yes, your cluster gauge is under-indicating. If it isn't non-linear, you might be able to fix it cheap by simply popping the needle off and relocating it higher. The faceplates aren't hard to remove, it's all plastic pawls. Even if that screws up the reading at the bottom, it's obviously more important for it to read right at the top.
Limey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:45 am
It so that would still leave me with the underlying cause as to why the coolant temp are a steady 221F all the time for me. It might even be the original radiator not operating correctly.

I have the viscous fan a gentle spin by hand and it felt slightly firm and not loose.
There are lots of things that can make an engine run hot. Test the clutch both cold and warm, it should give you a lot more resistance when warm. If that's good, start with some old school touch-and-feel diagnosis. The outlet hose on the radiator should be cooler than the inlet but not lots cooler. If it is, then your radiator has an issue or something is blocking the flow like a collapsed outlet hose. If the radiator seems to be clear, then use your IR on the thermostat outlet and top hose. The outlet should be a few degrees hotter than the thermostat rating and there shouldn't be much difference in temp between the 'stat end of the hose and the radiator end. If it's a lot hotter than rated or the temp falls way off across the length of the hose, suspect a bad 'stat that isn't opening all the way.
Thanks. I’ll try those methods and check back in when done.

In regards to the temp needle sticking. I tried running the Nissan cluster guage test method by turning ignition to on but engine off. Then pressing the trip button 3 times. I couldn’t get that to work. Is it the same method for the R51? Cheers.

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VStar650CL
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby VStar650CL » Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:15 am

Limey wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:32 pm
In regards to the temp needle sticking. I tried running the Nissan cluster guage test method by turning ignition to on but engine off. Then pressing the trip button 3 times. I couldn’t get that to work. Is it the same method for the R51?
No, it's a different procedure on the R51. See MWI-23 here:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... %2FMWI.pdf

Limey
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Re: Electric radiator fan stuck on high speed mode

Postby Limey » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:51 am

I just checked my lower radiator hose the one that connects to the thermostat at cold temperatures. When I gently squeeze it I hear the usual radiator neck water gushing noise but I also hear a ticking like metal type noise from I think the engine side where the thermostat is. A faint light ticking clicking when I squeeze that hose.

Is that the noise from the coolant pushing at the thermostat ?


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