Out of ideas

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jetstream87
Posts: 172
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Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Mon May 15, 2023 9:20 pm

I am still suffering from 97 Nissan Pathfinder idling issues - I changed the spark plugs as they were filled with carbon really bad!
I swap that out, changed the EGR valve as well, and the car ran to idle fine. The accelerator linkage did break and it was replaced.
Now what I see is the engine losing RPM - 300/380 vs 800 when I changed the spark plugs. Now today, raw fuel burning, black spot in the side walk.
I am throwing in the towel not knowing what else it can be, can someone chime in to see what else it is.


mdmellott
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: Out of ideas

Postby mdmellott » Tue May 16, 2023 7:17 am

You're doing the right things by fixing all those issues because they all work together to operate the engine properly. The root cause of the issue may have multiple contributing factors so getting the basics in good working order will help you resolve the problem. The engine controls rely on several basic elements that are manually adjusted. Start by getting these all corrected as necessary. The Nissan factory service manual, engine control section, page 25-29, is a good place to start. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 7%2Fec.pdf Checking the fuel system pressure, fast idle cam inspection and adjustment, and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment are all things expected to be correct and needing correction on these older Pathfinders. Study this section of the service manual. You are already doing things that need to be done so if you can help it, don't throw in the towel just yet.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Tue May 16, 2023 6:37 pm

mdmellott wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 7:17 am
You're doing the right things by fixing all those issues because they all work together to operate the engine properly. The root cause of the issue may have multiple contributing factors so getting the basics in good working order will help you resolve the problem. The engine controls rely on several basic elements that are manually adjusted. Start by getting these all corrected as necessary. The Nissan factory service manual, engine control section, page 25-29, is a good place to start. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 7%2Fec.pdf Checking the fuel system pressure, fast idle cam inspection and adjustment, and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment are all things expected to be correct and needing correction on these older Pathfinders. Study this section of the service manual. You are already doing things that need to be done so if you can help it, don't throw in the towel just yet.

Thank you for the inspiration, plug the OBD-2 again and notice the oxygen sensor monitor blinking Red.
Everything running how it suppose to, it idle fine until it was warming up so the only factor is that O2 Bank 2 sensor 2 was read a few months ago. Then it reset itself again, just the monitors were blinking now. I have to order the Bosch on Rockauto, Nissan Parts want $198/each.

mdmellott
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: Out of ideas

Postby mdmellott » Tue May 16, 2023 7:25 pm

Keep in mind what the O2 sensors do. I like to think about them as witnesses to events that have occurred upstream. They do nothing on their own. They only give testimony as they see it and then your PCM decides what to do with that information. O2 sensor 2 on both banks are unique in that no matter what they say, the PCM does nothing with the information other than flag it has faulty or with some other DTC pointing to catalytic converter issues. Those two downstream O2 sensors have absolutely no influence on the engine controls. Vehicles would function perfectly normal without them. They are only for emissions control purposes or as I have heard one Nissan technician put it, "sensor 1 is for the engine and sensor 2 is for the government."

If that sensor 2 is bad it should be replaced but it will make no difference in how your engine is currently performing. I bought Bosch O2 sensors for my Pathfinder as well. They are very reliable witnesses.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Tue May 16, 2023 10:31 pm

mdmellott wrote:
Tue May 16, 2023 7:25 pm
Keep in mind what the O2 sensors do. I like to think about them as witnesses to events that have occurred upstream. They do nothing on their own. They only give testimony as they see it and then your PCM decides what to do with that information. O2 sensor 2 on both banks are unique in that no matter what they say, the PCM does nothing with the information other than flag it has faulty or with some other DTC pointing to catalytic converter issues. Those two downstream O2 sensors have absolutely no influence on the engine controls. Vehicles would function perfectly normal without them. They are only for emissions control purposes or as I have heard one Nissan technician put it, "sensor 1 is for the engine and sensor 2 is for the government."

If that sensor 2 is bad it should be replaced but it will make no difference in how your engine is currently performing. I bought Bosch O2 sensors for my Pathfinder as well. They are very reliable witnesses.
That is my last resort before testifying amongst the judge. I located all 4 so might as change them all.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Fri May 26, 2023 5:11 pm

I finally switched all 4 sensors, it ran great until getting into work - the car starts to stop idle from 800 - 350 rpm. Just waiting on the EGR control valve hose to come in to see if that's the final missing puzzle that I need to complete.

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palmerwmd
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Re: Out of ideas

Postby palmerwmd » Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm

jetstream87 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 5:11 pm
I finally switched all 4 sensors, it ran great until getting into work - the car starts to stop idle from 800 - 350 rpm. Just waiting on the EGR control valve hose to come in to see if that's the final missing puzzle that I need to complete.
Curious to see what the ultimate culprit is/was or if it was several factors coming together. :)

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Mon May 29, 2023 5:50 pm

palmerwmd wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm
jetstream87 wrote:
Fri May 26, 2023 5:11 pm
I finally switched all 4 sensors, it ran great until getting into work - the car starts to stop idle from 800 - 350 rpm. Just waiting on the EGR control valve hose to come in to see if that's the final missing puzzle that I need to complete.
Curious to see what the ultimate culprit is/was or if it was several factors coming together. :)
Alright - so the car idles fine at times, today I pump some 91 fuel, added a lucas treatment. So this is what I have done to the car so far:
1. Changed the EGR valve
2. Spark Plugs (5/6 were filled with carbon, Blacker than my sins and soul)
3. Cleaned the Intake manifold.
4. Changed all 4 (o2) sensors with Bosch, since they were carbon build up on all 4 as well.

Some odd reason I decided to drive with the OB2 - plugged into the car since I have the monitors to set (O2, EGR, EVAP, and CAT [ this one is out the window, I need to replace them. It is $1,200 last I check to replace both. I am sure its much more now since CA is the theft capital of catalytic.]). Came to realize the code P0505 (Pending) shot up in the OB2. The part at Nissandealparts is $500 vs generic is about $130 - $300 give or take if I remember correctly. I have never changed this part or cleaned it, will it be better to clean it and see the miracle it will be fixed or swap the part (generic or OEM)? I cannot seem to locate the I.A.C. at all since I tried peeking through the car. I saw the diagram and it should be in the driver side back of the engine???? How can I get access to this? I have never removed the top part of the engine myself before due to the fear oooopppsss forgot this hose, forgot to connect this wire, or simply Sh*t the gasket is all crooked because I did not tied the bolts to its proper pattern.

mdmellott
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: Out of ideas

Postby mdmellott » Mon May 29, 2023 8:33 pm

I stand by my first post on this. "The Nissan factory service manual, engine control section, page 25-29, is a good place to start. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 7%2Fec.pdf Checking the fuel system pressure, fast idle cam inspection and adjustment, and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment are all things expected to be correct and needing correction on these older Pathfinders."

Don't throw any money at this until you have checked and adjusted fast idle cam inspection and adjustment and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment. These are basics that need to be correct. If they are not, you will never get the idle issue corrected. It is possible you have nothing more than out of specification adjustments that need to be made.

Given the P0505 code you see, regarding your IACV, I suggest looking at pages EC-337 through EC-340 as well. Even if you find, through this inspection of the IACV, that the IACV needs to be replaced, the basic idle adjustments still need to be correct or else you will continue to have idle issues.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Tue May 30, 2023 10:30 pm

mdmellott wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 8:33 pm
I stand by my first post on this. "The Nissan factory service manual, engine control section, page 25-29, is a good place to start. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 7%2Fec.pdf Checking the fuel system pressure, fast idle cam inspection and adjustment, and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment are all things expected to be correct and needing correction on these older Pathfinders."

Don't throw any money at this until you have checked and adjusted fast idle cam inspection and adjustment and idle speed/ignition timing/idle mixture ratio adjustment. These are basics that need to be correct. If they are not, you will never get the idle issue corrected. It is possible you have nothing more than out of specification adjustments that need to be made.

Given the P0505 code you see, regarding your IACV, I suggest looking at pages EC-337 through EC-340 as well. Even if you find, through this inspection of the IACV, that the IACV needs to be replaced, the basic idle adjustments still need to be correct or else you will continue to have idle issues.
Bam! confirmed the MIL came on today and threw the P0505 code, not sure why I over looked the IACV to clean it in the beginning. I have never cleaned it or have changed it I owned the car since 125K miles and not it has 212K miles. The OBD-2 picked up the code right away, as soon I parked the car in the grocery store parking lot the car shut off right away. I was able to get it back home after getting some groceries, however the lights dimmed when parking, and started to smell raw fuel unburnt.

How can I get access to this unit to look into it so I can at least clean it and hope it is that easy. I do have a spare gasket in hand to replace (new). I want to take a look at this unit and give it a clean. While I am there what do I need to look for when this is bad? Any section where I can look how to remove the top plenum, going to try to work it with my dad. Just want to see the torq specs and the pattern to bolt to ensure the gasket does not end up crooked.

mdmellott
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: Out of ideas

Postby mdmellott » Wed May 31, 2023 8:21 pm

I don't think you need to remove your intake plenum to get at the IACV. I grabbed a couple of images of the IACV on your "97 Pathfinder to give you an idea where to look. These are poor images for any detail but they should help you find it. The engine controls section of the factory service manual is going to tell you everything you need to do to test it and confirm that needs replacing or not. It's worth taking a look at but take care of all the basics I have mentioned so you are not chasing after the wrong things. https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 7%2Fec.pdf
Attachments
IACV Location.JPG
'97 Pathfinder IACV.JPG
'97 Pathfinder IACV.JPG (64.67 KiB) Viewed 2730 times

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:04 pm

Just got back from the mechanic ($360 later) I changed the IAC-V (found it on e-bay for $120) in which I changed the gasket with OEM as well.
The car idling fine, no misfire, OBD-2 still indicates lean on the Oxygen sensors. I drove it 6 miles, decided to grab a bite stop by, the car just shut off on the drive thru, then started back up, no more misfires. Wonder if it was a one time thing.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 3:05 pm

Just got back from the mechanic ($360 later) I changed the IAC-V (found it on e-bay for $120) in which I changed the gasket with OEM as well.
The car idling fine, no misfire, OBD-2 still indicates lean on the Oxygen sensors. I drove it 6 miles, decided to grab a bite stop by, the car just shut off on the drive thru, then started back up, no more misfires. Wonder if it was a one time thing.

mdmellott
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:45 pm

Re: Out of ideas

Postby mdmellott » Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:26 pm

What exactly to you mean by "OBD-2 still indicates lean on the Oxygen sensors"? Does your scan tool indicate fuel trim readings for both banks as a high positive percentage number or a low negative percentage number? What are your STFT and LTFT readings on both banks? Wondering if it was just a one time thing when it shut off unexpectedly is king of unsettling and not likely to be a one-off event.

jetstream87
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Out of ideas

Postby jetstream87 » Mon Jun 12, 2023 7:51 pm

mdmellott wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:26 pm
What exactly to you mean by "OBD-2 still indicates lean on the Oxygen sensors"? Does your scan tool indicate fuel trim readings for both banks as a high positive percentage number or a low negative percentage number? What are your STFT and LTFT readings on both banks? Wondering if it was just a one time thing when it shut off unexpectedly is king of unsettling and not likely to be a one-off event.
So it shut off on me again just when I pulled into the parking lot of work, a manager told me he thought I was coasting into the parking lot until he heard me turn the car on again lmao! We both got a good laugh, reminded me of the scene when Jack Sparrow makes port with a sinking ship. When I was coming back home it wanted to shut off but was able to give it some gas to prevent it shut off. When I push it pedal to the metal on the freeway the car does not respond to take off, just accelerates and eats gas.

You can see on the monitors that I need 4 monitors to settle (Cat will not settle since I need to change the catalytic converters, I do not plan on changing them, since I want to junk the car end of summer).

Below is what I got from the OBD-2 sensors

https://ibb.co/SQ3zy15

https://ibb.co/DbHVDpT

https://ibb.co/4PjjPZj

https://ibb.co/nc09PRh

https://ibb.co/qpx2nN6


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