Why is it that in my last ten years of owning three Nissans (Pathfinder, Armada, & Quest) not a single time when I have had any of them for any service has the service tech who opened the air filter box to inspect the filter has ever been able to put it back properly and when I mean properly that means making sure all three tabs on the bottom of the air box must mate with the matching three holes all the way in. Man it's unbelievable!!! no one has ever done it right!! ....as soon as I am out of there I have to look and sure enough not mated correctly. Anyone else ever noticed this?

twinblown wrote:Why is it that in my last ten years of owning three Nissans (Pathfinder, Armada, & Quest) not a single time when I have had any of them for any service has the service tech who opened the air filter box to inspect the filter has ever been able to put it back properly and when I mean properly that means making sure all three tabs on the bottom of the air box must mate with the matching three holes all the way in. Man it's unbelievable!!! no one has ever done it right!! ....as soon as I am out of there I have to look and sure enough not mated correctly. Anyone else ever noticed this?

......no surprise
kind of makes you wonder what else they screwed up
i have a really tough time handing my key over to anyone with a screwdriver or wrench

They are a bit of a pain to install properly unless you remove the boot from the box, but that's not an excuse for a service tech; it's just laziness.

smj999smj wrote:They are a bit of a pain to install properly unless you remove the boot from the box, but that's not an excuse for a service tech; it's just laziness.

i don't take it as laziness
i call it sloppiness, and not caring enough to do a good job
that's the person i don't want anywhere near my trucks

Not defending but...chances are your vehicle got worked on by the lowest paid guy in the shop with the least technical training or job experience. If he isnt paid by the hour, then he has to do an inspection of the vehicle that doesnt actual make him any money unless he sells something. He opened the airbox hoping for 2 tenths of an hour in return. It would have taken him longer than that to close the airbox again...so he lazily got the box somewhat close and moved on.

Once again, not defending, but maybe it makes more sense why that stuff happens? Dont take your truck to shops for anything you can do in your driveway. The more complicated stuff will go to techs that have training are paid in a way where they can get the details correct.

I always thought it was interesting the way techs polarized in a shop. I work in a VW shop and there's 3-4 techs that wont let a single detail escape them (the main techs) and then 3-4 express lube techs that are paid hourly and are expected to move as fast as humanly possible and only check the absolute minimum.

Ball joint falling off? Dont have time to shake down, make sure the tires are on tight and pull it out.

azaizai wrote:Not defending but...chances are your vehicle got worked on by the lowest paid guy in the shop with the least technical training or job experience. If he isnt paid by the hour, then he has to do an inspection of the vehicle that doesnt actual make him any money unless he sells something. He opened the airbox hoping for 2 tenths of an hour in return. It would have taken him longer than that to close the airbox again...so he lazily got the box somewhat close and moved on.

Once again, not defending, but maybe it makes more sense why that stuff happens? Dont take your truck to shops for anything you can do in your driveway. The more complicated stuff will go to techs that have training are paid in a way where they can get the details correct.

I always thought it was interesting the way techs polarized in a shop. I work in a VW shop and there's 3-4 techs that wont let a single detail escape them (the main techs) and then 3-4 express lube techs that are paid hourly and are expected to move as fast as humanly possible and only check the absolute minimum.

Ball joint falling off? Dont have time to shake down, make sure the tires are on tight and pull it out.

good reasoning, and i understand that you're not defending, but the customer doesn't look at it that way
the customer doesn't get a discount for having the techs in training doing the work
they are being charged the same labor as though the advanced techs are doing the work
therefore, they are entitled to the same quality of labor
so the customer frequently gets screwed, especially if the botched work to be done is minor
and a bad experience of this sort is a guarantee that the advanced techs lose a future customer when it comes time for a more advanced job needed to be done, because that customer won't want to go back to where they couldn't even get an air filter inspection done properly (let alone a drain plug properly torqued with a new sealing washer on it)
as far as the air filter element on an R51, it takes (in reality) approx. 0.1 hr for replacement (done properly)
i know because between my 2 R51s, i've done it half a dozen times
not rocket science, all it takes is LOOKING at what you are doing, and understanding how 3 parts fit together - THAT'S ALL
the point is, that the R51 air filter replacement or inspection is the easiest maintenance item on the truck - doesn't even require any tools at all to do it, and if a "mechanic" can't get this right, there's a problem
not to mention that air with dirt in it will get sucked right past the element since the air box lid is what holds it in place and seals it in
so in the long run, that job done improperly will result in engine wear and may not get remedied for several thousand more miles, at the next inspection
now, about those drain plugs....................

Techs don't get paid for inspecting air filters; they get paid for replacing them. So, he didn't get paid anything unless it was upsold, even though the time to inspect and replace is practically the same. That's not a defense for doing a half-assed job, just the way it is.
It's true the customer should get the same attention to detail regardless of what the tech gets paid. Dealers don't care about that (I know because I worked for several). They care that the lower experienced techs makes less than the experienced techs but the labor rate for the customer is the same, thus more profit for the dealer. It's a lousy business model, but one that many of them use.

Exactly. Sad state of affairs.

I think you might get lucky if you find an independent shop that isnt looking to maximize profits (at least, to the point that they're skimping on regular inspections and quality work) but you'll probably be looking for a trade in on time.

I'd say you could bring the error to someone's attention but the turnover rate on the low end of tech's is pretty astronomical.

azaizai wrote:Exactly. Sad state of affairs.

I think you might get lucky if you find an independent shop that isnt looking to maximize profits (at least, to the point that they're skimping on regular inspections and quality work) but you'll probably be looking for a trade in on time.

I'd say you could bring the error to someone's attention but the turnover rate on the low end of tech's is pretty astronomical.

in most cases, i think a trade-off in time is worth it, vs the hassle & headache of having to deal with having gotten a bad job done by a less than competent mechanic, especially at a dealership where training and proper equipment are available to the employees
i was a technician & service manager for 35 years, my standards are very high
when i saw that a mechanic didn't clean up a coolant overspill on the vehicle, or a drain plug not wiped off & dripping oil after installation, i called him up on it because no matter how good a job was done otherwise, the customers' perception of the deal is squashed
and at that point, the customer begins to question everything else about all of the work done
one of the things i encouraged my entry level mechanics (and even some of the more experienced techs) to do was to take 60 seconds to just look over the work that they did, and wipe up that spill, or hit that drain plug with a shot of contact cleaner and a rag
that way i didn't have an angry customer on the phone the very next morning because there's coolant or oil leaking
or finding out that they've been driving around with an air filter flopping around in the air cleaner assy

one of the reasons i chose that profession was the disappointments i suffered as a customer when paying for labor
to this day, I'm still leary of paying labor to anyone to do work for me, no matter what kind of work it is

Unfortunately, not all service writers and service managers at dealerships have those high standards and many don't have any mechanical background or experience, which is problem in itself when it comes to explaining potential or diagnosed concerns with their customers' vehicles. I've had service managers that were nothing more than re-assigned sales personnel who didn't know how to change their own oil. The manufacturers and their dealers need to find better ways to train and promote service technicians up to the ranks of service writers and managers and pay them accordingly.

smj999smj wrote:Unfortunately, not all service writers and service managers at dealerships have those high standards and many don't have any mechanical background or experience, which is problem in itself when it comes to explaining potential or diagnosed concerns with their customers' vehicles. I've had service managers that were nothing more than re-assigned sales personnel who didn't know how to change their own oil. The manufacturers and their dealers need to find better ways to train and promote service technicians up to the ranks of service writers and managers and pay them accordingly.

hammer meets nail, right on the money
and if they were willing to do so, they would gain the trust and confidence from the customers that results in a more solid customer base, not to mention a more profitable service department
maximizing profits is not necessarily the right way to go in the service business
I was fortunate to be in the motorcycle, watercraft, ATV, and generator business in my career, where there was not as "corporate" an attitude in the business, and probably a lot more freedom to do my job as i saw fit
it was more relaxed (and FUN) than the car dealerships are
but even that's changing now as the "bean counters" have moved in
it certainly made my career enjoyable to really be a manager, and organize the available work that needed to be done, the right people to do it, and having the materials on hand to produce the best possible outcome for everyone
and it didn't hurt one bit to have a solid technical background to do so
I know that in the past I've become a bit of a hard-nose about dealerships, but this discussion pretty much sums up the reason for it

Ya, reflecting on my current job: we have 4 service writers and 1 manager. No foreman and no distributor. Work is given to whomever needs it at the time, with the exception of the VW that require special training.

Half the service writers were car salesmen before this job (and their customer service is top notch) so their car knowledge is a little lacking.

Our service manage is a veteran, having manage numerous shops and is a badass. One of the reasons I changed jobs to be where I'm at and will probably stay here despite the work flattening out a bit since I started. She is more than willing to address/fix any problem while at the same time keeping customers happy. She's a special breed of awesome.

That being said, we still have a special bay or two reserved for a "Fast Track" "Quick Lane" type setup where you get a guaranteed time of waiting and a limited amount of inspection. This is a must for VW who does free maint for the first...60k? I forget. 4 Techs over there, 2 of which started late last year and havent gone through a single class of actual VW training. Not totally necessary since the Express Service only does the minimum repairs and shifts it to main tech if they find something more important. It works, but its not the norm. At least in comparison to the Ford dealership I worked for a few years ago. That was a mess.

I pretty much gave up on dealer service departments some years ago after just to many issues and being overcharged. I am sure there are dealerships out there that do fine fair work but I found a quality independent one man shop with a guy who takes pride in his work and fits me in pretty quick.

Bought a lease turn-in '11 V8 about 2.5 years ago. First LOFR was free so I took it in. Noticed two issues when I got home. One was the airbox you mentioned. Second, they lost a lugnut. Needless to say I don't go back unless it is a warranty (i.e. Free) service.

Went to the dealership yesterday for $19.99 oil change and "complementary inspection" well guess what!!!! they fucking did it again and left the air box improperly sealed and one of the clips unlatched....morons!!!!