squeal/squawk on extreme cold startup

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disallow
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squeal/squawk on extreme cold startup

Postby disallow » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:16 am

Good day.

Please see the attached video (i guess I could have just done sound, but oh well.)

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 4&hl=en-CA

Any ideas (if you can hear above the ticking of my cold engine!) what this could be?

Thanks
t


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Pappy
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Postby Pappy » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:31 am

There are more than a couple of things that this could be but the two I would say;

1. Sounds like valvetrain noise which is common in very cold weather but should get quiet after the motor warms up. Its -33F here this morning and with a block heater mine still makes a little noise but not that much. Warm the engine up and then restart, see what happens.

2. I've always thought that in cold weather, when air is at its highest density, you can have mild spark knock or detonation. Spark knock can sound just like metal to metal contact. A higher octane fuel can cure that.

Disallow, the easiest fix is crank up the radio! LOL

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Postby disallow » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:45 pm

Pappy wrote:There are more than a couple of things that this could be but the two I would say;

1. Sounds like valvetrain noise which is common in very cold weather but should get quiet after the motor warms up. Its -33F here this morning and with a block heater mine still makes a little noise but not that much. Warm the engine up and then restart, see what happens.

2. I've always thought that in cold weather, when air is at its highest density, you can have mild spark knock or detonation. Spark knock can sound just like metal to metal contact. A higher octane fuel can cure that.

Disallow, the easiest fix is crank up the radio! LOL
Thanks for the response.

I'm not referring to the ticking, moreso the squawk that starts at 22 seconds into the video and end at 32 seconds.

When its really cold, this noise will last for up to 2-3 minutes, or until I start driving.

You're right though, at this temperature, before the engine is warmed up the knock from low octane fuel is more apparent. Right now have 87 octane in it, but next tank is 93.

t

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Pappy
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Postby Pappy » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:31 pm

I thought that was one of those famous Ravens! LOL What a bird!

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Postby Captain » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:05 pm

Its the cavitation of the oil pump. I really think Im going to try and use 5w/20 for winter since mine does the same sound when cold.

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Postby disallow » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:47 pm

Captain caveman wrote:Its the cavitation of the oil pump. I really think Im going to try and use 5w/20 for winter since mine does the same sound when cold.
Already using Mobil 1 5w30... i don't think 5w20 makes that kind of difference...

Have an appt at the stealership on Tuesday next week, so we'll find out then I suppose.

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squeal/squawk on extreme cold startup

Postby amera64 » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:46 pm

I too had that exact same noise coming from my engine on cold days. I sprayed some silicone spray in the belt idler pulley and I have not heard the sound since. You might want to give that a try.

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Postby Captain » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:11 pm

Well I found out what works. I've never been a engine rebuild in a can type of guy but I thought about Lucas oil. I seen on there is helps with cold starts so I went a got a oil change done and had them add one at of Lucas. Today in Chicago we had temps in the 9's. I did a cold start with no sounds. Just nice smooth sounds.

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Postby disallow » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:18 pm

Captain caveman wrote:Well I found out what works. I've never been a engine rebuild in a can type of guy but I thought about Lucas oil. I seen on there is helps with cold starts so I went a got a oil change done and had them add one at of Lucas. Today in Chicago we had temps in the 9's. I did a cold start with no sounds. Just nice smooth sounds.
Well it doesn't appear to be an engine noise. They replaced the serpentine belt and tensioner, but that didn't fix it. $250 later. ($100 of parts) There is a TSB for updated tensioner, and they showed me that it was weak anyways, so I guess it needed to be done, but did not fix the problem.

When it still made the noise, I got the shop foreman to come listen. He showed me where the sound was coming from... the fan clutch, which is of a viscous engagement design. Basically when the viscous fluid is really cold (-15C and lower), it doesn't flow properly, and causes a problem with engagement of the fan clutch at startup. Once the fluid warms up, the noise goes away. He said this was 'normal operation' and that replacing the clutch would be costly, and may only fix the problem for a while.

From now on, I'm doing everything myself on this truck, cuz I coulda figured that out if I wasn't so damn lazy, (and it wasn't so damn cold!)

t

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Postby Captain » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:57 am

Well Here in Chicago its -9 with out windchill and I just started it up. I really think Lucas helps. But I will keep this in mind about the TSB when I'm near the dealer

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Postby disallow » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:04 am

Captain caveman wrote:Well Here in Chicago its -9 with out windchill and I just started it up. I really think Lucas helps. But I will keep this in mind about the TSB when I'm near the dealer
I'll be in Chicago next week on business. Looking forward to warming up from our -31F (without windchill) here in Manitoba.

The TSB they listed on the invoice for the tensioner update was NTB06-072a.

http://madmudders.net/npora/mzxtreme/20 ... 6-072a.pdf

Anyone else have issues with noisy fan clutches in the cold?

t[/url]
Last edited by disallow on Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby disallow » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:07 am

disallow wrote:
Pappy wrote:There are more than a couple of things that this could be but the two I would say;

1. Sounds like valvetrain noise which is common in very cold weather but should get quiet after the motor warms up. Its -33F here this morning and with a block heater mine still makes a little noise but not that much. Warm the engine up and then restart, see what happens.

2. I've always thought that in cold weather, when air is at its highest density, you can have mild spark knock or detonation. Spark knock can sound just like metal to metal contact. A higher octane fuel can cure that.

Disallow, the easiest fix is crank up the radio! LOL
Thanks for the response.

I'm not referring to the ticking, moreso the squawk that starts at 22 seconds into the video and end at 32 seconds.

When its really cold, this noise will last for up to 2-3 minutes, or until I start driving.

You're right though, at this temperature, before the engine is warmed up the knock from low octane fuel is more apparent. Right now have 87 octane in it, but next tank is 93.

t
Now that I have my Superchips Cortex tuner, and I changed to Fuel Saver XS mode, the knocking on startup is all but gone. I only have to run 87 octane now, it no longer pings or knocks on load.

Kinda neat little piece of equipment.

t

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Postby Captain » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:34 pm

Correction -15

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Postby drmayer » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:39 pm

My serpentine belt squeaks pretty bad, especially when its damp. Looks to be one of the symptoms of the TSB listed above.

Is this covered unter the 5/60000 powertrain warranty? I would think so.

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Postby disallow » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:13 pm

drmayer wrote:My serpentine belt squeaks pretty bad, especially when its damp. Looks to be one of the symptoms of the TSB listed above.

Is this covered unter the 5/60000 powertrain warranty? I would think so.
appears to be covered, but you would need to check with your dealer.


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