OME lift bad drive experience

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labsy
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OME lift bad drive experience

Postby labsy » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:36 pm

Hi,

after few years of owning R51 Pathfinder and putting some 300k (kilometers) on her, I decided it is time for springs and shocks change, and a small lift kit. So instead of adding blocks to springs, I instead went into OME lift kit:

FRONT
OME coil springs model 607, +30 mm, +40 kg
OME Shocks Nitrocharger SPORT 90003

REAR
OME coil springs model 609, +30 mm
OME Shocks Nitrocharger SPORT 60016

Old springs were all worn out, so now it look much higher, and if I step out before, now I slide out of drivers seat, which is for my average height maybe a bit annoying. But will get used to.

But the MAIN PROBLEM is, the guys at garage said this kit will improve ride quality in every aspect possible. Especially as my old shocks were all saggy, worn out and stability was an issue.
Now it is catastrophy! Ok, put aside off-roading, which gained a lot, as vehicle is much higher, and also running over some potholes and rough terrain maybe improbved a bit. Not much, but maybe a bit better han before.
But riding on paved roads, highway...geez, disaster! I am forced to drive under 60 mph, because as I go higher vehicle is extremely unsafe to drive. It feels like driving on ice, every bump on highway is followed by my blood presusre raise by 100%, it is challanging to keep vehicle on road. It woobles around like skyscraper on wheels. Bumps on longer curves are extremely dangerous, vehicle jumps out of line, tries to slip a bit and if it is wet it slips, ESC kicks in and I am near heart attack at the end of the curve.
And I am talking of my daily drive, I know those reoads for decades, went over all those woth a dozen of different cars in past years and I know what's the optimum speed for each of them. Now with OME lift kit I must lower speed in curve, for example at one of highway drive ins, from previous optimum 60 km/h to 45 km/h now to be able to stay on road. Also overtaking 18-wheelers on highway, it was a breathe before, as vehicle is heavy and wind suction did not have a lot of influence on me, passing 18-wheeler. But now with OME suspension...geez, don't ask! I am all wet and stering wheel is soaked of my sweat, becasue I barely keep vehicle on my side of the road. Feels like side winds now have much more influence on driveability. Disaster.

Optics adjustment was done properly, garage guys say.
And this garage, one of the best in our country, specialized for off road vehicles.
Also I have full blown legal certification done at authorities.

Also all other Pathfinder users are more than happy with this same lift kit, installed in the same garage.

Any ideas what went wrong in my case?
...or am I just too picky, sensitive to all tiny details in ride quality, because I was racing and drifting a lot when I was younger and I really have feeling about the car.


Pathfan
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby Pathfan » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:29 am

Hi Labsy. Me too.
I recently had installed the same OME rear spring + shock combo. Excellent description on highway driving! I had the same palm sweat experience. Dash warning lights show and power steering loss too!

Attempted several alignments- common right rear alignment bolt at maximum adjustable position. Additionally I installed Rear UPC eccentric/offset bushings, but 4x4 shop doesn’t seem to understand their adjustment telemetry (neither do I). I’m not feeling up to an involved Trial and error, then repeat, adjustment method. Seems that 9oclock or 3oclock looking from rear should be correct position- considering rear cam bolt is at maximum.(please anyone advise?).

So I uninstalled the rear OME spring and shocks. Then. Installed rear med Moog springs /Bilstein 4600 shocks/2” spring spacer. Still same alignment issue BUT without the sensor confusing OME Highway Ride.
Next, I’m going to have shop lower setting on front 5100 coil overs from max height to level with 1”rear spacer lift. Hoping then laser alignment can be done.
If successful-Then While installing new Body mounts, I’ll add 1” Body spacers. (Purchased Body 1” spacer kit with bolts from SF Creations).
Guess I haven’t helped, Lapsy. But I too share your pains.

Pathfan
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Location: Asheville, NC

Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby Pathfan » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:56 pm

Labsy, Not sure how to use this info myself- however I found this from Path member NVSteve...

One of the guys (Marcus) on the PCoA forum had this to say:

yeah mate no probs the rear camber is set to slight poss + 0'5 camber so when you toe the rear out to 0.9mm it will bring the tyre to sit square and wearing even with the most amount of tread in conntact with the road this only suits pathy r51 with a 40 to 50 mm lift , i did not belive this but found these answers on this forum, when i gave these messurments to my local bob jane they were a bit stand offish at first but it worked, i have been back 5 times in 20000 kms tyre wear is great and bob jane blacktown now use this messurments for all pathy s with the lift , and no tyre size dose not matter even with standard road tyres they were wearing on the out side edge only until i did this wheel aligment correction i call it. i belive it is the best for me for tyre wear my needs and the cost of mud tyres. the way other places set up the wheel aligiment with toe in it pushed the camber past 1.2 deg poss causing bad tyre wear to the out side edge of the tyre only, with even one so cauld expert in 4wd in narrellan telling me i should lower the pathy back down to standard and buy a patrol. anyway hope this helps you guys out.

silverarrow27
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Location: Banning, CA

Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby silverarrow27 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:46 pm

I have the OME in the rear of mine and just the other day after getting my alignment done, I was able to take on ramps regularly and do 90 mph on the freeway just fine. There's something going on with your rear suspension, even with my camber out of spec it drives normal unlike your experience. Try swapping the shocks from driver side to passenger side or just turning the shocks in it's current location 180 degrees to see if it makes a difference in ride quality. If turning the shock 180 degrees, do only one side at a time then take it for a test drive so you know which side was the issue. Good luck with the issue, if the pros can't figure it out. I'm afraid we're probably even more dumbfounded here on the forums.
Last edited by silverarrow27 on Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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labsy
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby labsy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:36 pm

Wow, gerat info, guyz! Thank you!

I will definitely first try those REAR adjustments:
+ 0'5 camber
0,9 mm toe out

But I also suspect something wrong in FRONT end.
These days it was raining quite a lot and it was DRASTICALLY noticed light steering wheel in long fast corners, like on highway, going some 60 mph. It felt like I suddenly drove on ice, total lack of feedback from wheels.

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palmerwmd
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby palmerwmd » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:03 pm

labsy wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:36 pm
Wow, gerat info, guyz! Thank you!

I will definitely first try those REAR adjustments:
+ 0'5 camber
0,9 mm toe out

But I also suspect something wrong in FRONT end.
These days it was raining quite a lot and it was DRASTICALLY noticed light steering wheel in long fast corners, like on highway, going some 60 mph. It felt like I suddenly drove on ice, total lack of feedback from wheels.
The complete front end kits dont really cost all that much money.
I suspect u are outside the US but still for references here is a complete front end kit for your car from Rockauto:
All this included for 385.79 USD
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 3&jsn=1319

I am sure wherever your location is you have access to something like this also.
Whatever the issue in your front end is this will fix it.
(This is listed as "for the 4.0 V6" because thats the smallest r51 engine we get in the USA, but i cannot imagine your 2.5 l Diesel being very different. Check our local equivalents to Rockauto)

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labsy
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby labsy » Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:43 pm

Geeez, rear alignment was disaster! I did not notice, but even with naked eye it could be seen, that one of rear wheels has negative camber, while other stnds right up, and one wheel toes inwards significantly, while other does not.
It was TOE OUT for 10 degrees almost, and CAMBER out for 4 degrees. Both rear whees were not even touched by alignment crew, only fronts were done.

I took it to other alignment service, and OME installer felt so guilty when I told him, that he offered me full refund for alignment services and my time spent there. He says eh will never use this alignemnt service again.

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palmerwmd
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby palmerwmd » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:09 pm

labsy wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:43 pm
Geeez, rear alignment was disaster! I did not notice, but even with naked eye it could be seen, that one of rear wheels has negative camber, while other stnds right up, and one wheel toes inwards significantly, while other does not.
It was TOE OUT for 10 degrees almost, and CAMBER out for 4 degrees. Both rear whees were not even touched by alignment crew, only fronts were done.

I took it to other alignment service, and OME installer felt so guilty when I told him, that he offered me full refund for alignment services and my time spent there. He says eh will never use this alignemnt service again.
So does this mean the mystery is solved?
realigned and all good now?

silverarrow27
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby silverarrow27 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:52 am

If your rear alignment was that badly off, I'd put part of the blame on the shop that did your lift install. How can they not adjust it the best they can before getting an alignment done? I'd avoid using that shop in the future even if they're the "best" in the country. Apparently, they left your rear alignment all sorts of jacked up and they didn't know why you were having bad driveability? Scarey to think what else they install for other customers and can't figure out why something isn't working the way its suppose to.

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labsy
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby labsy » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:05 pm

@silverarrow27, yp, you are rite. Looking at whole service I am dissapointed. I understand this garage offloaded the alignment part of the work to 3rd party, but it is their responsibility to check for final results. Probably they offered refund exactly for the same reason.

But now after riding for a couple of days with alignment sorted out, I am still disapointed with ride quality.
Vehicle is nice to drive only on flat pavement, with no bumps and deviations in pavement. It is still quite worse as soon as I drive over some irregularity in pavement, like drive track channels (of heavy vehicles), or some patches, which are not 100% flat...especilly if those are in curve, vehicle boats like skyscraper, and keeps wiggling left/right qulte longer, than before.

Could it be that I was used to drive "heavy load springs" for all those years? And my previous springs were compressed for about 1 inch, now I have 2 inch lift, which totals out some 3 inches real lift in front and almost 4 inches rear. And maybe new OME is a bit softer, so maybe all in all it sums up into boat feeling on road bumps. Despite of OME statement, that ride quality will drastically improve in all conditions with their lift kit.
What ya think?

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palmerwmd
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby palmerwmd » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:09 pm

labsy wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:05 pm
@silverarrow27, yp, you are rite. Looking at whole service I am dissapointed. I understand this garage offloaded the alignment part of the work to 3rd party, but it is their responsibility to check for final results. Probably they offered refund exactly for the same reason.

But now after riding for a couple of days with alignment sorted out, I am still disapointed with ride quality.
Vehicle is nice to drive only on flat pavement, with no bumps and deviations in pavement. It is still quite worse as soon as I drive over some irregularity in pavement, like drive track channels (of heavy vehicles), or some patches, which are not 100% flat...especilly if those are in curve, vehicle boats like skyscraper, and keeps wiggling left/right qulte longer, than before.

Could it be that I was used to drive "heavy load springs" for all those years? And my previous springs were compressed for about 1 inch, now I have 2 inch lift, which totals out some 3 inches real lift in front and almost 4 inches rear. And maybe new OME is a bit softer, so maybe all in all it sums up into boat feeling on road bumps. Despite of OME statement, that ride quality will drastically improve in all conditions with their lift kit.
What ya think?
Hmmm OME seems well respected in the community .. do you have any worn bushings or the like?
Anything that maybe got bent during the suspension work?

Maybe, hopefully, your springs still need to settle some?

Even so, now I am glad I did not go with a lift when rebuilding my rusted out suspension. :|

silverarrow27
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby silverarrow27 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:17 am

I have OME springs and shocks in mine and they ride well even without my rear sway bar. Some questions:

How's your bushings in your control arms?
How does your spring insulators look like?
Were those insulators installed correctly?
How's your ball joints?
How's your rear sway bar endlinks and sway bar bushings?

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Thupertrooper
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby Thupertrooper » Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:43 pm

silverarrow27 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:17 am
I have OME springs and shocks in mine and they ride well even without my rear sway bar. Some questions:

How's your bushings in your control arms?
How does your spring insulators look like?
Were those insulators installed correctly?
How's your ball joints?
How's your rear sway bar endlinks and sway bar bushings?
Very curious on everyone's experience with these springs. Has anyone measured their OME springs new?

silverarrow27
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Banning, CA

Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby silverarrow27 » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:54 pm

Sorry, I didn't. I thought I may have taken pictures of it side by side with the stock springs, but I couldn't find any photos of that either. My Ironman springs should be here tomorrow. I can measure those for you too. If only you had asked a few weeks ago, I did have one of my OME springs out.

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Thupertrooper
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Re: OME lift bad drive experience

Postby Thupertrooper » Fri Jul 15, 2022 9:28 pm

silverarrow27 wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:54 pm
Sorry, I didn't. I thought I may have taken pictures of it side by side with the stock springs, but I couldn't find any photos of that either. My Ironman springs should be here tomorrow. I can measure those for you too. If only you had asked a few weeks ago, I did have one of my OME springs out.
Im really curious on their measurements since they do not post them online.
I do have my list of MOOG spring specs that I have collected over the years.
I have to check out some of the Armada/Patrol forums to compare their opinions.
Recently confirmed that Armada/Pathfinder coil control arms are the exact same length meaning the leverage on the spring stays the same.
OEM HD Coils are only 16.75" tall with plenty of room for a longer coil. According to the spacer + spring about 18" tall with an overall vehicle lift of about 2.5".


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