ELECTRICAL Troubles

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Code Pathfinder
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ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Tue Feb 22, 2022 1:16 pm

I am seeking advice on the current situation I am in with my Pathfinder.

Currently, it is having electrical problems possibly related to the ABS system.

What I know:

I pulled some codes from the Nissan yesterday

Image

Code Definitions:

C1110 NISSAN Description
The Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Actuator And Electric Unit sets the OBDII code when there is an internal malfunction in the ABS Actuator And Electric Unit.

C1163 NISSAN Description
The steering angle sensor detects the rotation amount, angular velocity, and direction of the steering wheel, and transmits the data to the Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) Actuator and Electric Unit (Control Unit) via Control Area Network (CAN) communication. The ABS Actuator and Electric Unit monitor the Steering Angle Sensor. The ABS Actuator and Electric Unit set the OBDII code when the Steering Angle Sensor is not to factory specifications.

C1144 NISSAN Description
The steering angle sensor is located behind the steering wheel. The sensor detects the rotation amount, angular velocity, and direction of the steering wheel, and transmits the data to the Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) actuator and electric unit (control unit) via Control Area Network (CAN) communication.

U1000 NISSAN Description
The Controller Area Network (CAN) is a serial communication line for real-time applications. It is an on-vehicle multiplex communication line with high data communication speed and excellent error detection ability. Many electronic control units are equipped onto a vehicle, and each control unit shares information and links with other control units during operation (not independent). In CAN communication, control units are connected with 2 communication lines (CAN H line, CAN L line) allowing a high rate of information transmission with less wiring.
Each control unit transmits/receives data but selectively reads the required data only.
The Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) sets when the Engine Control Module (ECM) is not transmitting or receiving CAN communication signals of OBD (emission-related diagnosis) for 2 seconds or more.

P1721 NISSAN Description
The vehicle speed sensor·MTR signal is transmitted from combination meter to Transmission Control Module (TCM) by CAN communication line. The signal functions as an auxiliary device to the revolution sensor when it is malfunctioning. The TCM will then use the vehicle speed sensor·MTR signal.


If I had to guess, The ABS Module is toast and is causing most of these codes to happen. Not quite sure whats going on but here are the symptoms:

When driving in slippery conditions, the vehicle's cluster gauge begins to dim and lose voltage rapidly.

When driving in wet conditions, the voltage in the vehicle will spaz out/freeze when turning off the vehicle.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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VStar650CL
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Feb 22, 2022 2:10 pm

The Steering Angle Sensor (SAS) could be causing all of those except the C1110, which might be an artifact of low battery. They could also all be products of a bad ABS ground. The ABS has its own dedicated one which will cause all sorts of codes if it gets crummy or loose. You need a scan that can tell you whether the SAS is actually communicating on CAN. If it is, then most likely it's gone safe because it lost calibration memory amd a re-cal should fix it. If your scanner has work support for SAS calibration, see if it will take. If the SAS is offline then it won't, the calibration will kick out on an error without completing. When the SAS isn't communicating or has lost calibration, the ABS itself will go safe and stop transmitting wheel speeds. That will cause your P1721 in the tranny and U1000 in the AWD, because ABS-equipped Nissans almost all compare ABS wheel speed with VSS speed from the TCM and throw codes if they mismatch by more than about 5mph.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:12 pm

Ended up going to the dealer on this one.

ABS Module has failed internally which is throwing all of the CAN-related codes and sensor codes.

They tried clearing all of the codes but they immediately came back after driving a short distance.

Also told me that my Aftermarket alternator is outputting too much voltage at 15V or Higher.

The voltage set point on my 270 Amp alternator is 14.8 but it increases as I drive down the road.

New Pump will be $900 and it's on backorder currently.

Hoping I can get it fixed before spring starts!

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VStar650CL
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby VStar650CL » Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:27 pm

Code Pathfinder wrote:
Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:12 pm
Also told me that my Aftermarket alternator is outputting too much voltage at 15V or Higher.

The voltage set point on my 270 Amp alternator is 14.8 but it increases as I drive down the road.
That's pretty much a regulation failure even at 14.8V. There's no good reason to pump more than about 14.2V out of any alternator. It just burns up the battery plates and may very well have toasted your ABS. If they actually built the alternator with that spec, I have no polite words for them.

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palmerwmd
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby palmerwmd » Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:42 pm

Is there a way to downregulate your alternator?
or to return it for a milder setup which I know rugged rocks carries?

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smj999smj
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby smj999smj » Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:30 am

You can usually get a used ABS actuator assy. for these vehicle for around $150. Try Car-part.com.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:07 am

VStar650CL wrote:
Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:27 pm
Code Pathfinder wrote:
Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:12 pm
Also told me that my Aftermarket alternator is outputting too much voltage at 15V or Higher.

The voltage set point on my 270 Amp alternator is 14.8 but it increases as I drive down the road.
That's pretty much a regulation failure even at 14.8V. There's no good reason to pump more than about 14.2V out of any alternator. It just burns up the battery plates and may very well have toasted your ABS. If they actually built the alternator with that spec, I have no polite words for them.
Here are the specs of my Alternator from DC Power Engineering:

Mounting Type:OEM Fitment

Output Voltage:14.8

Idle Amperage:200

Hot Idle Amperage @ 200° F:180

Max Amperage:270

Hot Max Amperage @ 200° F:250

Doesn't affect vehicles PCM, Check Engine Light or Charge Light:Yes - Direct plug-in OEM PCM Compliant

Stator Configuration:6 Phase Hairpin

Average A/C Ripple Current:3 amps

Positive Output Stud Size:8MM x 1.25 Copper

Temperature Compensation:Yes with 3-Step Thermal Protection

Rectifier:12 50 amp press fit diodes

Rectifier Heatsink:Aluminum

Warranty Duration:2 Years

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VStar650CL
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby VStar650CL » Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:26 pm

No polite words, then.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:32 pm

OK plan of attack/fixing the problem is becoming more clear now possibly.


After digging around the factory charging system wiring last night I found a Corroded set of ground wires underneath the small fuse box panel right next to the battery.


I didn't see this set of grounds during my initial investigation of the wiring.as they were hidden behind a fat wire loom for the positive battery cables.


went ahead and snipped off the corroded wires and reterminated the fresh copper strands from the same wires. I also went ahead and wirewheeled the grounding surface for the two wires for the best metal contact possible.


After doing this, My voltage problem did not go away.


Image


I took a peek under the vehicle to try and follow the wiring and saw that the two ground wires were bolted to the engine. This leads me to believe that those 2 grounds serve as the engine to chassis grounds for the charging system.


While under the vehicle, I did take notice of my factory starter and it does appear to be worn out. Probably due to the fact that its Original to the vehicle 13 years ago and the vehicle currently has over 217K on the odometer.


My plan of action so far to try and further tackle my voltage issue:


1. There possibly could be additional corrosion somewhere else in the charging system that is causing my issue. Replacing this wiring bundle would effectively replace the wires going to the positive post on the battery, Alternator Wiring, Starter Wiring, and Engine to Chassis Grounds. it could help in my situation but I want to at least eliminate the charging/starting system wiring harness as a suspect in terms of my voltage problem.


Image


Nissan sells this OEM wiring kit for $140.


2. Possibly the starter could use a replacement?


I bought a new one just in case but I figured if you have to go under the vehicle to replace the factory wiring harness, you might as well replace the starter as well. That could also eliminate the starter as a cause for my problem although I don't see it being a problem right now currently.


3. The 270 Amp Alternator I bought has a Defective Voltage Regulator and it bypasses the Voltage Set Point for the battery charge system. This to me seems unlikely as I haven't heard of anyone else having this issue with this brand of alternator before. From what I can gather online, it appears that corroded wiring can/will cause excessive resistance on a charging system and cause the alternator to overcharge the system to compensate for the resistance issues. Thus producing a large voltage reading.


4. The Battery itself won't hold a charge so the Alternator is trying to output more to get it up to full charge.


I did go ahead and order a replacement ABS Module. $900 all said and done. This part I know for sure is not working properly as this part was having internal failures before the voltage problem ever occurred.


I know spending money towards parts that are not problems is a frowned upon method but at this point for me, I want to eliminate as many possible causes to my problem as possible.


On the plus side, everything will be brand new for the most part on the electrical side of things.

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VStar650CL
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:10 am

If it's in the wiring and not the alternator, you can use voltage drop to find out where your problem is. See this post in Nico:

https://forums.nicoclub.com/post6817410.html

The post talks about ground quality, but resistance problems in the power wiring can be traced the same way. There will be more relative drop on big power wires than on the ground side (0.1~0.25V is probably typical between the alternator and battery), but the principle is the same. Many of those double-winding aftermarket alternators require thicker cabling, so that may very well be why your regulation is off. For anything over 200A you really should be using 2AWG just like a starter cable.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:13 am

With the new 270 Amp Alternator, I am running 1/0 Cable from the Battery + to the Alternator, along with the Engine to chassis ground and Battery to Chassis Ground. I do not have an upgraded ground cable running from the alternator to the frame so maybe that could possibly help as well.



I did a parasitic draw test about 1.5 weeks ago and found a draw of .200 Milivolts on my battery when sitting with the engine off.
Turned out to be a USB charger that was wired into the cab. It was not charging anything but the LED lights for the charger were staying on as the wiring for the charger was constant 12V power instead of switched. I unplugged that charger as I dont need it anymore with my current setup.

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VStar650CL
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby VStar650CL » Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:10 am

Code Pathfinder wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:13 am
With the new 270 Amp Alternator, I am running 1/0 Cable from the Battery + to the Alternator, along with the Engine to chassis ground and Battery to Chassis Ground. I do not have an upgraded ground cable running from the alternator to the frame so maybe that could possibly help as well.
The OE ground and hot cables are the same gauge if I recall correctly, and the current needs to reach the negative post. Vdrop there could definitely affect the regulator. Put a heavy gauge jumper from the negative post to the block and re-test the voltage rise, if it steadies at the 14.8 then that's your culprit. If so, install a heavier or auxiliary ground cable.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:43 pm

Troubleshooting update #1

Since my Optima Yellow Top Battery was covered under warranty, I went ahead and replaced it with a normal Ever start Battery from O Reilly's to see if there would be any improvement to my situation.

There was no Improvement.

My Troubleshooting list so far to go off of:

1. Bad battery - Not the problem

2. Bad Charge System Wiring - New Wiring Harness will Arrive on Monday

3. Bad Starter - New one in possession will install soon

4. Bad Voltage Regulator on new High Output Alternator - Will come to this conclusion once every other area is confirmed to be bad.

5. Something else is messed up down the line - Will come to this conclusion if the 4 solutions above do not fix my problem.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:07 pm

So I may have found my problem tonight.

While peeking under the vehicle again, It appears that the factory alternator cable was not reinstalled on my new 270 AMP Alternator when the shop I brought it to was working on it.

This needs to be reinstalled even with a high output alternator installed. To compensate for the larger load, you add on to the Factory wiring by doing the big 3 upgrade.

In some cases, there is not a requirement to reinstall the factory harness but those alternators do not have a regulator plug on the outside. They are mainly found on older vehicles with less technology.

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Code Pathfinder
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Re: ELECTRICAL Troubles

Postby Code Pathfinder » Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:42 pm

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