Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

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TooMuchControl
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Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:57 pm

Well here goes. An attempt to compare a number of tires - all of which are in good consideration for any R51
Tires that have been attached to my R51
265 70 16 Krugen HT51 (present set - in Winter Storage)
265 65 17 Michelin Latitude Ice (present attached - well it's Winter)
265 75 16 Yokohama Geolander G015 AT (gone, as poor alignment + bad inner tie rod damaged them)
265 65 18 (Forthcoming purchase - I have been able to secure the SAP 18" Charcoals)

As you can see, I'm one of the rare birds that is going to have 16" (in two different sizes), the 17" for winters, and forthcoming 18" rims.


I drive 90% on the highway. But it's periodic that in Winter time I need 4WD activated when rolling.
For this purpose, I thought to purchase a dedicated set of Winter Tires.


The Yokohama's - my experience.
A very good tire. I like the raised white letter option. It was a solid tire that felt a bit bloated on the "265 75 16", It's a 100% a truck tire, and it's has pleasant characteristics. It was extremely good in snow. I would have little wheel spin in 2wd mode. Very confident with this tire though all modes and seasons.

Would I buy them again? Yes, with an exception. I'm not 100% certain my alignment, which wasn't so bad, caused damage to the tire. It's a hesitant part of my life cycle with them. They were good, while they lasted.

Krugen. My experience. I mapped out my reasons on purchasing this tire set, from this website. It's tread matches to that of Michelin. It's an All Weather tire, and last year, through snow, no issues, but it's no Winter tire. It is not an aggressive tire, made more for highway driving, and for $110 CAD per tire after rebate, it was the best deal. The Krugens have about 30k on them now, but they are rated past 100k.

One thing - the tread on this tire is super-duper. It's barely noticeable that the tread has gone down more that 1-2mm. It still looks like a full tread after 1.5 years driving. I'm super impressed by this. It has the look of a decent tire, if you are not sure if you should invest a lot of money into tires, but want a bit of all weather ability and a highway comfort.

Would I buy them again? No. Why? See below.

Michelins - Winter. What's there to say. When you put these shoes on, right after the Krugens, it's just a different vehicle. It was the same feeling when I switched from Michelins to the Yokohama's. I bought these tires with 5k on them, and placed another 10k on them. So at 60k warranty, they are about 1/4 the way through their life cycle.

Michelins Winters - to my knowledge, the only (or rare?) manufacturer that has a treadwear warranty on Winter tires. My tire dealer, nodded in agreement with me, and all the people in the room stopped talking...

Whatever Michelin puts into the rubber milkshake - works. At least for me.

Now onto the tires and options that are in my view.
I will post as I have time. I will look forward to people's opinions on the treads, and experience with any of them.
Last edited by TooMuchControl on Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:15 pm, edited 4 times in total.


TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:57 pm

General Grabber A/T X - Snowflake Tire
- where are the jagged sipes for wet driving. It's puzzling!
- heavy block construction, does this mean it's meant for trucks that tow. Heavy load, heavy grip?
- I'm not sure I think this tire was built for driving on the highway more than 50% of the time.
- would this tire be apt to handle more than a year or two of year round Canadian weather before losing most of it's purchased ability?

you could stick a walnut inside those tread gaps.
Looks more dedicated for snow, than wet?

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palmerwmd
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby palmerwmd » Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:48 pm

if we establish a range that AT tires are in, just for discussions sake.
and call the left side as closer to highway tires (Michelin AT, Hankook Dynapro At2) and the right side as closer to MT tires (such as BFG KO2s) :
Then I would rate my Geolandar G015 as in the midle of the At range ( they do have 3MPSF rating)

The Grabber ATx, I love the look of those threads. more on the 'right" side of AT tires I would suspect given the parameters I just outlined.
are they 3PMSF too?

TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:49 pm

In the fist snaps, I have tried to attached the placards for the tire.
That one has the Snowflake triangle on the placard, underneath the TRUCK, I believe.

Coming up next - your favourite?

TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:51 pm

ImageYokahama!
ImageTread has great compromise
ImageNice attempt for 3D sipes.
Imagewider gaps to throw snow
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It's a great tire, all around. Capable on the road, with the seasonal grip to get you where you may need to go, if you are not climbing trail passes. Robust tire, and tread depth.

It looks like this tire was designed for 80% on road capability, with a touch of channeling to fight off the elements.

This is where the Firestone Destination LE3 looks legit as a comparable. It's not blocky, but watch the tread pattern and ideas...

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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:08 pm

Firestone Destination LE3

Not Snowflake rated..but...it looks close to the Yokohama?
Obvious different compound, and doesn't have the chunky sides. Love the sipes, and the direct channel tread. A highway tire, and not robust on the side walls to take impacts.

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TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:31 pm

Firestone A/T2


I must say, I can see why this tire is expensive.

ImageSnowflake Symbol
Image lack of 3D sipes.
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Image Love the look of the tread, and it's not aggressive as some other AT tires.
Image Multilayered chops on the treads. and linear / separated//tons of grip in a straight line I would say.

What I LOVE about this treads on an AT?
The tread block sipes/notches, go all the way down to the belt line, across each block.

It has the depth of a Michelin, all season. The tread block. where it goes down the whole 10mm.

No cheating in the development of this tire I think. It's not an intimidating tire, and looks like a Michelin LTX and a BF Goodrich KO2, had a baby.

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palmerwmd
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby palmerwmd » Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:21 am

still watching your thread. holding my discussion until you are complete ;0
Great effort that provides enriching content

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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:50 pm

Canadian Tire Corp (made by Cooper Tires I believe)
In house brand, and probably more of an all season
An interesting linear channel, but the tread looks basic. Would think a quiet tire, that's meant to work between the end and beginning of winter.
Not a Snowflake rated tire.

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TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:02 pm

Meat and Potatoes.
Good Year Duratrac.

Tire is massive, heavy, and purpose built.
Meant for those that need to everywhere. Not sure how these would fare under all conditions.
Interesting that the shoulder sipes are a cross section of the tire direction, and the innerds show dispersion of sipes in alternating patterns of 90 degree.

I would imagine, for a lazy steering of the R51, you'd be turning hard on the wheel to get these to go into the direction you want. Looks like they grip, up, down and all around.

I can see these being extremely good up a mountain pass, or on gravel, or twisty slower roads.

With all this traction, I'm not certain how quiet these would be for my application - I simply think this tire is too heavy duty for normal day to day, and the mileage has to be affected.

But, if I wanted to stay on the road, doing derbys, this might be the dude.


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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:10 pm

Falken Wildpeak AT3/W

Seems to be a fan favourite. Highly rated on TireRack. Highly recommended on Tire Rack.

Sipes are are a mix of 3D and 2D. Interesting.
They also are staggered in 3/2/3/2 logic on the shoulders.
Aggressive looking tire - but not over done. They one they had on display was an LT.
Based on reviews, I would have to have a hard look at this tire, within the AT range.

The channels seem like divots. I would think, based on what they are trying to design with it, it would do very well on slush (3D sipes on the shoulders) and possible wet performance should be decent.



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TooMuchControl
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby TooMuchControl » Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:24 pm

Cooper AT3 4S
Look what's going on in here.
Treads are blocky, but they've integrated some functions into them.
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3D sipes through all treads. This would be an AT with a lot of slush/winter grip.
Only issue is the sipes are not very deep. It may not afford longevity in all season use.
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I like the look and ability of this tire. If it's the one you want all year round, plan to replace them, every 3 years? Maybe ~70km would do them in. Maybe 5-7mm down on this tread and you have an all season tire, not at AT. I can see people not complaining as the tire ages, but it may lose it's original abilities.

There are many positive reviews on this tire. I can see many folks appreciating not switching rubber and still having comfort and good road manners on these.

They almost looks like an all season, but they have blocky treads, and bigger gaps, to afford snow/gravel grip.

The rubber is lighter in colour than Duratrac, and AT3/W. not sure if this means anything (age, etc). Softer compound?

Hmmmm.

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palmerwmd
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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby palmerwmd » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:31 am

the cooper disco AT 4S is what i have on my Xterra right now.
only a few hundred miles on it.
though both are AT rated tires, I do feel the geolandar g015 is better on highway, but i would trust the AT4s more offroad or in the snow ( EVEN THOUGH BOTH ARE 3PMSF rated)

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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby silverarrow27 » Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:34 am

The Coopers will perform best in snow based on those little extra siping compared to the rest of the tires posted on here.

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Re: Tires - an unfair and biased evaluation

Postby palmerwmd » Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:43 pm

silverarrow27 wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:34 am
The Coopers will perform best in snow based on those little extra siping compared to the rest of the tires posted on here.
haha and i live in Florida yet I have those tires..
.., but I look with envy to those people in the North who get to enjoy hooning around Blizzards in their 4x4 Pathfinders :P


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