Starting problems / Battery trouble

[Zen_master]

Wasn't sure whether to post this in the Engine forum or in the Electrical forum because the problem seems to be a little of both.

Hoping to get your thoughts on the following:

Have a 2011 V8 LE with about 48k on the odometer and all the bells and whistles. In the last two weeks I've had to jump start it twice. The first occurrence was when the temperature was reading 14 below zero on the vehicle's temp readout. What perplexes me is that the engine turned over more than a dozen times on three separate turns of the ignition. It simply would not fire. I am mindful of pausing between auxiliary position on the ignition and start position in order to permit the fuel pump to prime. Each time the engine simply failed to fire though it turned over plenty of times. As one would expect after the third attempt at turning to start the battery did not have enough juice to turn the starter and I resorted to jumping the vehicle. Ironically, with the jumper cables hooked up the engine fired up right away. Did not even have to 'boost' the other car by revving the engine/alternator. Simply hooked them up and immediately turned the key and the R51 roared to life.

The second instance was two nights ago. In this case the vehicle had been sitting for six days in a covered parking lot at the airport. The temperature was in the low 20s. I turned the ignition to Aux for a couple second to let the fuel pump prime and then turned the ignition to start only to be met with an engine unwilling to fire. Did the same thing again and after a couple of turns the starter provided that familiar clicking sound telling me the battery was toast. A passerby was around to provide a jump and again the R51 roared to life seconds after hooking the batteries up via the cables.

I have several questions regarding these experiences. First, the vehicle is only three years old. Shouldn't a modern battery last longer than this? I understand there are all kinds of drains on the battery with the info center, digital everything, heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc. but it's also a huge battery being run by an alternator mounted to a rather large 5.6L V8. Seems to me it should last longer than this.

Second, is this symptomatic of something wrong with the engine? Is a tune-up in order? I can't understand why despite the battery having enough juice to turn the engine over a dozen times the damn thing won't fire.

And lastly, is there a way to turn off all the damn power draining processes that run in the background? I swear, I get in the Pathfinder and turn the key and the thing lights up like a Christmas tree. I turn the blower off at night, I don't use the automatic lights, but still the entire interior gauges and center console all come to life the second I turn the key. These power drains could be the difference in a couple of starter-powered RPM.

[skinny2]

Three years isn't abnormal for an OEM battery these days. That's about when I swapped mine out just as a precaution as it was starting a little slow after sitting for a few days. These draw power while sitting so the fact this occurred after sitting six days certainly sounds like the battery is failing.

Why will it crank but not start? I can't answer that in a technical manner, but I do know I've seen this on many vehicles in the last ten years or so. Basically the starter can turn but the electronics can't get enough juice to get correct readings for proper start-up. That's my basic version of this.

My last Jeep GC took this a step further. It was doing some very weird things electronically but was starting fine. I forget what all it was doing but I recall the wipers wouldn't work and kept getting random lights in the dash. Mechanic friend said "battery" and I thought he was bat-shit crazy. Well it was a few years old so I just swapped the battery...no more weird electronics.

[Zen_master]

Thanks for the reply.

Question for those that have already replaced their batteries. Did anyone upgrade to an Optima and if so has the additional expense been worth it? At a minimum, barring an accident that totals the vehicle, I will be driving this for the next five years. I would like a battery that lasts at least that long. If OEM spec is only good for three years this is unacceptable.

[eieio]

Question for those that have already replaced their batteries. Did anyone upgrade to an Optima

yes, but it wasn't an upgrade.

and if so has the additional expense been worth it?

absolutely not!
here's a good topic on the matter: http://www.thenissanpath.com/viewtopic. ... t=kirkland

[skinny2]

I would like a battery that lasts at least that long. If OEM spec is only good for three years this is unacceptable.

OEM "spec" doesn't necessarily = similar life. Nissan (and most manufacturers these days) are using relatively cheap (i.e. shorter life) batteries at the factory. If they save $20/car x millions of cars....that's a pretty good way to increase profits. I bought an Exide Classic from a local parts shop. They claim they don't see many coming back. It's a 20 month free replacement battery that I've had for over two years now and paid $70. You can pay more for more warranty if you like but I tend to just ask around and see what people are having good luck with. I'm not overly interested in a warranty as much as just getting a decent battery.

[akley88]

ive heard good things about the die hard gold agm batteries. optima batteries reputation in the last couple of years has gone down.

[Zen_master]

Spoke with some folks and they corroborate what's posted on these boards: the factory battery is garbage and good for about 36 months.

Ironically, Nissan dealers offer an 84 month battery 100% guaranteed for the first two years and prorated after that. Makes you wonder why they don't put this battery in the vehicle to begin with. Seems it would result in fewer pissed off customers.

My vehicle was a certified used car when I purchased it late last March. Curious if anyone thinks it's worth arguing with the dealer over a battery that has gone dead twice this winter.

[doctahjones]

i got my pathy used, and the battery was ~2.5ys old at the time. i replaced it 6mo later due to multiple battery deaths (wouldn't even turn over at all on first try).

i replaced with a duralast gold.

2 years after that (and i drained it a few times due to leaving stereo/amps on) i used the free replacement (with another DL gold) as i started having issues starting it again. autozone said the battery was bad.

i'm about 1.5 years into the replacement and i'm getting the feeling it's going to die again soon. i'm getting those 'slow' starts that seem like your battery isn't all charged....

[volvite]

I have the duralast platinum. I used to use optimal but.their quality has gone down and they don't last. I've had this platinum in for almost 3 years and so far no issues.

[skinny2]

Ironically, Nissan dealers offer an 84 month battery 100% guaranteed for the first two years and prorated after that. Makes you wonder why they don't put this battery in the vehicle to begin with. Seems it would result in fewer pissed off customers.

Doesn't necessarily mean it's a better battery. It probably is, but the only thing you know for sure is the warranty is better. As mentioned, even a few dollars saved adds up big time for manufacturers and most folks aren't going to jump ship from a brand due to a dead battery. Particularly when they're all doing it these days. Some of the "premium" brands give a better battery on the warranty (Acura, Lexus, etc) but most only cover it for 12 months or 12k miles from new.

My vehicle was a certified used car when I purchased it late last March. Curious if anyone thinks it's worth arguing with the dealer over a battery that has gone dead twice this winter.

Well "Nissan Certified Pre-Owned" means you get a 7/100k powertrain warranty. Obviously doesn't include a battery. I suppose if you have time to blow on it, worst case they say "no". For less than $100 I'd rather just go pick out a battery I know to be good and forget about it for a few years.

[disallow]

What perplexes me is that the engine turned over more than a dozen times on three separate turns of the ignition. It simply would not fire.

That is pretty weird. Did it sound slower than it should? Hard to judge, as batteries degrade slowly over time, and the sound of the engine turning slower can be hard to determine.

I am mindful of pausing between auxiliary position on the ignition and start position in order to permit the fuel pump to prime.

You should not have to do this.

First, the vehicle is only three years old. Shouldn't a modern battery last longer than this?

Depending on the conditions the battery has been under, yes I would. Some of the conditions that could contribute to shorter battery life would be if it has been drained before, if it is exposed to high temperatures in summer, or if there is a poor connection at the battery cables.

I understand there are all kinds of drains on the battery with the info center, digital everything, heated seats, heated steering wheel, etc. but it's also a huge battery being run by an alternator mounted to a rather large 5.6L V8. Seems to me it should last longer than this.

Agreed, taking into consideration my comments above.

Second, is this symptomatic of something wrong with the engine? Is a tune-up in order? I can't understand why despite the battery having enough juice to turn the engine over a dozen times the damn thing won't fire.

A charging/electrical system inspection may be in order. I have seen alternators get weak at 3 years, that would be covered on warranty. Also a check for other parasitic loads to see if there are any other malfunctioning electrical items, including anything that may be aftermarket like a stereo, remote starter, or inverter/amp.

And lastly, is there a way to turn off all the damn power draining processes that run in the background? I swear, I get in the Pathfinder and turn the key and the thing lights up like a Christmas tree. I turn the blower off at night, I don't use the automatic lights, but still the entire interior gauges and center console all come to life the second I turn the key. These power drains could be the difference in a couple of starter-powered RPM.

Honestly, you shouldn't have to do this. Make sure the battery is the appropriate size for the application (I've seen some aftermarket installs of batteries that would make you scratch your head), if you are OE then you are probably good.

My 05 is pretty much loaded, has auto lights and the same 'christmas tree' effect you mentioned. If the battery gets low, it has issues. But that doesn't happen very often.

As a side note, a friend has a newer MDX, and has had nothing but problems with his battery. His issue is one of his kids leaves the passenger light in the rear on, draining the battery. Once you've drained a lead acid battery several times, they just don't hold up anymore.

I have tried Optima, but as mentioned in a previous post, Don't go there. They are not a great solution, and when they go bad, they do so very quickly.

Hope that helps!
t

[heckler40]

The OEM battery is a POS. Stranded me twice this winter.

Fixed the problem: Optima Redtop.

FYI, Autozone price matches Batteries Plus

[Zen_master]

Thanks everyone. It is clearly a s#!t battery. I spent 30 minutes in the parking lot the other day on a 50 degree day listening to the radio. I had no other auxiliary systems on and when I went to turn the ignition there was hesitation. Had it been below freezing I would have required a jump. Going to wait until the weather breaks for the warmer and see if battery prices come down a little bit.

[skinny2]

Going to wait until the weather breaks for the warmer and see if battery prices come down a little bit.

And my wife calls ME a cheap bastard!!