p0021 & p0011

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nick3501
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p0021 & p0011

Postby nick3501 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:43 pm

So I picked up an 07 with these 2 codes. I have seen these codes on altima's and infinity's with the vq35's and it was usually low on oil/stuck VCT solenoids so didn't worry too much.

Heres where I am at, I removed both VCT solenoids and tested for operation. They seem to work fine. No sign of contamination but I soaked them in TB cleaner. Also did an oil/filter change.

These codes pop up simultaneously immediately after clearing them. Engine runs smooth and quiet. If I step on it and get it up over 3500rpms it bucks like a fuel-cut, only at full throttle. It is a 6 speed manual.

I cant imagine both VCT sensors being bad and setting the codes p0021 and p0011 almost immediately especially considering they aren't contaminated and seem to operate normally (apply power and the plunger moves freely)

Oil pressure according to the factory dummy gauge is fine (a little above the half way mark) and no oil pressure lights.

I don't know the service history of this vehicle. There is no noise or rattles from the timing cover area.

I once got a p0340 code while messing with the solenoids/test driving. It may have been in relation to unplugging one of the VCT solenoids. Other forums indicate a relationship between these codes but nobody seems to have a definitive answer.

any help much appreciated


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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:26 am

Use a mechanical gauge to test the oil pressure at idle. If it's below spec, you likely have a leaking oil gallery cover gasket on the rear timing cover. Another reason could be is if someone replaced the timing chains and got the crank gear a tooth off on the timing. Other than that, all I can suggest is go by the FSM procedures for the codes. Nico Club has Nissan service manuals you can access for free at their site.

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Postby ShipFixer » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:36 pm

Try Nissan DataScan II and an OBD II bluetooth dongle with an ELM327 chip. Then you can see what's going on with VVT in real time. Helped me diagnose the same code on one side that was *very* intermittent.

Should indicate if your timing is off (ouch!) or VVT is not working.

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Postby nick3501 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:28 pm

ok datascan shows about 10 degrees timing at idle. this is with the vct solenoids still plugged in. If the timing chain is off someone has been driving it this way for at least 2 years but I have no proof the timing chain was ever touched. It also doesn't make any sounds suggesting its worn/loose.

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Postby ShipFixer » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:29 pm

Are you saying one cam is ten degrees off, and the other is zero degrees? Or both cams are ten degrees off?

In the data field setup options, select cam position for b1 and b2, and both b1's for solenoids (it's a label bug, they'll fix it).

At idle in park, at temp, you should see zero solenoid voltage applied and both cams sitting around zero, plus or minus 2.5 degrees or so...but mostly zero. Any amount of throttle the cams should advance, and be somewhere between zero and thirty at 2,000 RPM (still in park).

If at idle one cam is ten degrees ahead or behind with no voltage applied to the solenoid, it's possible a mechanical timing issue (chain off by a tooth). Would not be any visible evidence that your truck had the timing chain repair, but it's very possible as 07's were affected. I stumbled across NDS in the first place trying to figure out if this was my issue, and a Maxima owner had used it and saw one of his cams was one tooth and ten degrees or so off at idle.

FWIW, I did not notice that only one of my cams was advancing (oil seal improperly repaired). Only chased it down when I got a couple P0011 codes. Engine will appear to drive fine as, well...it's kind of designed to run with the cams +/- 40 degrees out of phase with VVT.

It does drive better with everything working of course.

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Postby nick3501 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:34 pm

I'll need to go back and have another look. the version of Datascan I have only shows one field that says simply timing. can't seem to get an and view individual cams.

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Postby smj999smj » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:15 pm

nick3501 wrote:I'll need to go back and have another look. the version of Datascan I have only shows one field that says simply timing. can't seem to get an and view individual cams.
You could be looking at ignition timing rather than intake camshaft timing.

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Postby ShipFixer » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:48 pm

Should be looking for these fields. You can tap on the three dots in the upper right hand corner and select fields for the data display screen.

Image

Abiove is throttle at idle...

Image
Above is on the gas around 2,000 RPM.

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Postby nick3501 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:52 pm

Image

ok.so they are both sitting at -16 with some variation when i increase rpms.

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Postby nick3501 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:06 pm

I noticed if I really accelerate hard (full throttle) it will skip/buck at 3500 rpm but only full throttle, 75% throttle it will climb to 5k. when it does skip/buck it immediately throws a p0340 cam sensor circuit bank 1. That code will not return unless I accelerate full throttle.

I noticed in the FSM for troubleshooting p0011 and p0021 "cam sensor (phase)" was one of the possible problems.

I'm wondering if I should try fixing the cam sensor issue before figuring out the timing codes p0011 and p0021.

it's amazing how many forum posts I've read through from people who had the same problem right down to the p0340 and they're all dead ends they never came back and explained how they fixed the problem...

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:29 pm

The cam sensor replacement is an easy job and worth doing before you start pulling your hair out. Just stick with a genuine Nissan, Hitachi, NTK or Denso brand part.

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Postby nick3501 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:35 pm

any thoughts on why both b1 and b2 are sitting pretty at -16 degrees?


There is the real possibility someone installed the chain a tooth off in the past and just "lived with" the codes, however we have a smog/inspection program and this truck passed less than 1 year ago which would be impossible with the codes present (I have the print out it said all I/M monitors complete and no codes were present in February 2019) ..the previous owner of 4 years said the timing chain/components were not touched but I'll make that conclusion myself 8)

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Postby ShipFixer » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:07 pm

I think the main timing chain is off by a tooth. If it was one cam then maybe a secondary chain. If it was sixteen degrees advanced then tiny, tiny chance it's a solenoid or control voltage thing but that's not what you've got.

If you are getting regular codes (suspect you are...P0011 is cam advanced beyond expected value) then yeah the previous owner probably just lived with clearing the code every now and then.

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Postby nick3501 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:41 am

yeah, my p0011 and p0021 come back immediately after clearing them. The truck seems to run fine for the girls I run with :lol: ..Just no VCT

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smj999smj
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Postby smj999smj » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:20 am

In my experience, both sides being affected is usually due to the crank being off-time, low oil or heavy sludge in the engine or a leak at the oil gallery cover gasket on the rear timing cover.


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