2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

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amr40509
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2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby amr40509 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:25 pm

Last week I filled the gas tank on my '06 and then began to notice that it seemed like it was really working harder then normal and my mileage was awful. I assumed bad gas, and have driven about 100 miles.

This morning I topped the tank off, and hopped on the highway. I quickly began to notice a strange vibration.

I checked things out and the front left wheel was really hot, so I assume I have a stuck/dragging brake.


Anyone have any experience with this? I do need to replace the caliper too?

This is an 06 with 53K on it, original brakes.


me&pathy
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Postby me&pathy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:55 pm

yep my front right brake was stuck, had to replace the whole set up at about 20 thousand miles. its all good now but i have silver brake caliper :D

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Re: 2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby blink32 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:46 pm

amr40509 wrote:Anyone have any experience with this? I do need to replace the caliper too?
I'd rebuild the caliper if not replace it. Probably can't even get rebuild parts :-/ . Flush the fluid also. Once brake fluid boils it's been broken down and will boil easier in the future. No guarantee it's boiled since the caliper stuck but might as well flush it out.

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disallow
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Re: 2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby disallow » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:49 pm

amr40509 wrote:Last week I filled the gas tank on my '06 and then began to notice that it seemed like it was really working harder then normal and my mileage was awful. I assumed bad gas, and have driven about 100 miles.

This morning I topped the tank off, and hopped on the highway. I quickly began to notice a strange vibration.

I checked things out and the front left wheel was really hot, so I assume I have a stuck/dragging brake.


Anyone have any experience with this? I do need to replace the caliper too?

This is an 06 with 53K on it, original brakes.
New caliper is in order. Rebuild is asking for trouble. Some people say to replace calipers in pairs too, but I have gotten away with just one.

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Postby LittleStevie » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:27 am

The solution of replacing the caliper seems logical and I wouldn't disagree with it, but what is the mechanical root cause of the failure? Do the calipers warp or get distorted? Do the bushings for the slide pins get worn? From AMR's description it sounds like it happened relatively quickly...what would cause this?

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Re: 2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby blink32 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:51 am

disallow wrote:Rebuild is asking for trouble.
Why would you think a rebuild is asking for trouble? Prior to us becoming a throw-away-society rebuilding things was the primary option and only requires one "special" tool, a brake hone, but you could get away with some fine emry cloth. GM calipers/brake cylinders can still be rebuilt as quality parts are available off the shelf. A rebuild may not even be an option due to parts availability but saying rebuilding something "is asking for trouble" is a pretty mis-leading statement to me unless you have some insider info.
littlestevie wrote:...what is the mechanical root cause of the failure?
I've never seen the actual caliper warp, but then again I haven't worked as a mechanic for 50 years. I've also never seen where the pads themselves caused an issue. What I have seen happen can be attributed to one or a few things working in conjunction.
1. The grease in slide pins dries out or the boots sealing the slide pins some how fail and road grime, grit, "the elements" get in causing the caliper to seize tight to the rotor at-least ride very close to it.
2. The boot around the caliper piston has a similar type failure causing it to become stuck in the braking position or for it to force the pad closer to the rotor than the normal floating position.
3. The piston in the caliper is corroded by the brake fluid (contaminants like water) causing it to not release properly.
4. The brake fluid has broken down/absorbed water to a point where it will boil fairly easily. You would think this would lock all the brakes but it will take the path of least resistance and exasperate any other small problems.
Last edited by blink32 on Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

amr40509
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Postby amr40509 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:00 am

I assume it happened quickly. The last time I was out on the interstate for some easy to judge highway driving with no snow was about 2 weeks ago. MPG was normal.

Last week I did all city driving with mostly short trips (10 miles or less, speeds up to 60mph, but mostly about 30-40). I filled the tank up at a Sam's Club (not where I normally get gas, I usually go to Shell) on Wednesday evening and then the next day noticed that my truck felt like it was working harder to get up to speed (still wasn't bad, but felt like I was having to put it a tad more) and noticed I was going though that tank of gas FAST. I thought it was the Sam's Club gas.

Yesterday I went to a Sporting Clays shoot about 30 miles away. I gassed up at a Shell right before I left, picked up some friends across town, and hit the road. When I got up to speed (65mph) I started getting a vibration but was only at that speed for about 3 miles before my exit, then on to back roads where I didn't notice the vibration anymore.

On the way home we took a different route that was mostly bigger roads (55-65mph) and the vibration started getting worse. I pulled over and the rotor was pretty "glazed" looking and the wheel was quite hot.

The truck never pulled either direction (during driving or stopping) and the only noticeable impact is that it feels a little down on power.

I don't have time to rip it apart myself this week, so I have called a shop I trust and the dealer - both are putting together a parts list/quote.

I know I won't be taking it to the dealer, they have confirmed it is not a power train warranty item, I just have having them quote it up for kicks.

I'll post the list's / quotes when I get them this morning.

I assume that what I'll be doing is:

Caliper's/pads/rotors in the front on both sides (everything I can find, including both shops, say that doing both sides is the only real option).

Rear rotor turn and new pads

Flush fluid

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Postby amr40509 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:16 am

front rotor - $118 each ($236)
front caliper - $125 each ($250)
Pads $80
Labor and brake flush $200

Total $766

+ 6% tax

--------------------
$811.96 for just the front.

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blink32
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Postby blink32 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:15 pm

Ouch. But at-least you'll have a paper guarantee and ANYTHING that doesn't feel right you get to make them fix!

me&pathy
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Postby me&pathy » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:33 pm

just replace it, its a heavy truck don't chance it.

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Postby amr40509 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Those numbers above were from the local shop.

The dealer left me a voice mail earlier with their numbers.

For remanufactured calipers they are $549, each. Add in labor, front rotors, turn rear rotors, new pads all around, and fluid flush and the grand total is......$1,889.00.

Yeah...they are not going to get the bid on this one.

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Postby myriad46 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:40 am

amr40509 wrote:Those numbers above were from the local shop.

The dealer left me a voice mail earlier with their numbers.

For remanufactured calipers they are $549, each. Add in labor, front rotors, turn rear rotors, new pads all around, and fluid flush and the grand total is......$1,889.00.

Yeah...they are not going to get the bid on this one.
That, absolutely, disgusts me. That's not even new parts!!! Find a friend and do it at home. Once you learn how, it's pretty straight forward. Then, if you can find a friend at an autoparts store, they can give you dealer price on parts and it gets even better.

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Postby amr40509 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:46 am

I could do the work myself -- no worries there -- I just really don't have the time this week. It would be a few days until I could get to it and I have a couple of work related trips to make early this week that will more then offset the extra labor cost (plus I'd have to rent a car for a couple of days).

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disallow
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Re: 2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby disallow » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:14 pm

blink32 wrote:
disallow wrote:Rebuild is asking for trouble.
Why would you think a rebuild is asking for trouble? Prior to us becoming a throw-away-society rebuilding things was the primary option and only requires one "special" tool, a brake hone, but you could get away with some fine emry cloth. GM calipers/brake cylinders can still be rebuilt as quality parts are available off the shelf. A rebuild may not even be an option due to parts availability but saying rebuilding something "is asking for trouble" is a pretty mis-leading statement to me unless you have some insider info.
OK... well let me clarify... rebuilding a seized caliper is not recommended because:

1. You don't know what parts, or to what extent, are warped.
2. If its really seized, trying to rebuild will be similar to other exercises in futility.
3. Its cheaper to buy a complete new/rebuilt caliper anyways.

Not knowing whats wrong with the caliper, its probably best to replace it. If you can determine without a doubt what caused it to seize in the first place, then knock yourself out. But good luck getting the seals to sit properly, and be prepared to get brake fluid everywhere. :)

t

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Re: 2006 w/ stuck brakes - your thoughts?

Postby blink32 » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 pm

disallow wrote: OK... well let me clarify... rebuilding a seized caliper is not recommended because:

1. You don't know what parts, or to what extent, are warped.
2. If its really seized, trying to rebuild will be similar to other exercises in futility.
3. Its cheaper to buy a complete new/rebuilt caliper anyways.
This is my point. Who is not recommending rebuilding calipers? The mechanics selling you their parts and services? Of course they recommend replacing it. Liability and more $$$. The less time it takes them to get the job in and out the more $$$ they make overall. Not to mention the mark-up on the parts.

It's quite easy to identify failed parts. But you don't even need to. In a rebuild everything except the caliper is replaced anyways because it will be assumed those parts are damaged and are cheap enough. Determining if a caliper is warped is only as far away as a true flat measuring tool.

The only time a rebuild will turn into an exercise in futility is when the operator does not complete the work properly. That I will agree with.

I don't see how a hand full of of dust boots, two guides, two bolts, a seal and piston is more expensive than a whole reman-caliper (unless you get the parts via a dealer). At a quoted price of $125 each caliper I can go down to Grainger and get everything I need for far less than that. But I will concede that the average person no longer has the drive to do this and will take the easy way out.

It all goes back to the operator. You don't do the work properly your seals will not seat and your work will be worthless. But that's why tools are made and procedures are meant to be followed. This is not a jab at you but have you ever rebuilt a caliper or brake cylinder? I ask because you make good points but they reek of urban legend more than practice. I have rebuilt brake cylinders and calipers with out issue that are in use on the roads now. It is ridiculously easy.


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