What does everyone tow?

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08Datsun
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Postby 08Datsun » Mon May 10, 2010 8:37 pm

We tow a Viking tent trailer, which is about 2,800-3000 lbs. depending on how much stuff you take with you. I wish I had a picture handy. The PF handles the load easily and has been a great tow vehicle.

FFB - I find your observations very interesting. I've done the bypass and added a Hayden cooler I had lying around to help tranny cooling duties. My temperature observations are a bit cruder as I simply reach under the lower grille opening and grap the coolers to see how hot they are. Unfortunately, this doesn't work well when driving down the road. What I've noticed is they are quite warm around town, but cool when I've been running down the highway. We towed the tent trailer this weekend about 400 miles. Every time we stopped, the coolers were luke warm. When we got home yesterday, I backed the trailer up our driveway. It's about 25' long, uphill, and around a turn. You have to go very slow and it takes a couple of minutes to do. When I was done, the coolers were insanely hot and could not be touched for even a split second. After that and now hearing your observations, I may have to get a gauge. What brand gauge did you get and where did you install the sender? Which fan did you get?


Fossilfuleburner
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Location: San Jose, CA

Postby Fossilfuleburner » Mon May 10, 2010 10:42 pm

Budrbean wrote:What about the engine fan? Is it not pulling air through while the vehicle is sitting still? Same as it does for the radiator?
It’s logical to think the radiator fan pulls air through the radiator, the condenser AND transmission cooler. And it does but its very minimal across the transmission cooler. There’s 2.5” of air space between the trans cooler and condenser so the radiator fan doesn’t need to pull it across the trans cooler (like it does with the radiator and condenser) but there’s still going to be some airflow there. The radiator fan is really designed to pull air through the radiator and condenser only.

I wanted to test what the airflow would be through the 3rd cooler so after I installed my trans cooler fan, I turned it on with the engine off and put my hand behind the radiator. I could detect airflow but just barely.

I think the fan makes the most sense for anyone towing heavy loads. Its nice to have but not necessary unless your towing more than 2,000lbs. People that do a lot of off-roading in desert climates may benefit too.

Would like to hear other's opinions on this.

Fossilfuleburner
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:55 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Postby Fossilfuleburner » Mon May 10, 2010 11:28 pm

08Datsun wrote:We tow a Viking tent trailer, which is about 2,800-3000 lbs. depending on how much stuff you take with you. I wish I had a picture handy. The PF handles the load easily and has been a great tow vehicle.

FFB - I find your observations very interesting. I've done the bypass and added a Hayden cooler I had lying around to help tranny cooling duties. My temperature observations are a bit cruder as I simply reach under the lower grille opening and grap the coolers to see how hot they are. Unfortunately, this doesn't work well when driving down the road. What I've noticed is they are quite warm around town, but cool when I've been running down the highway. We towed the tent trailer this weekend about 400 miles. Every time we stopped, the coolers were luke warm. When we got home yesterday, I backed the trailer up our driveway. It's about 25' long, uphill, and around a turn. You have to go very slow and it takes a couple of minutes to do. When I was done, the coolers were insanely hot and could not be touched for even a split second. After that and now hearing your observations, I may have to get a gauge. What brand gauge did you get and where did you install the sender? Which fan did you get?
08Datsun, love your off-roading pics. Wish my PF was 4wd.

I used this write up on Titantalk to install my trans temp gauge, http://www.titantalk.com/forums/titan-f ... e-kit.html

The sender is installed on the transmission pressure test port on the passenger side of the transmission. People from other forums report that temperatures at the test port reflect pan temperatures.

Here's an old pic I took after it was installed. Image

Its an Autometer gauge
Image

I installed a 10" Hayden fan (p/n 3670). The best prices were actually at my local auto parts stores. Kragen O'reily has it for $50 and $55 at Pepboys. Specs can be found here, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3670/

Instructions on the Hayden website, http://www.haydenauto.com/Installation- ... ntent.aspx

Pic 1
Image

Pic 2
Image

Pic 3
Image

Switch for the fan
Image

Hope this info is helpful for anyone interested in installing a trans temp gauge or fan

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disallow
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada

Postby disallow » Tue May 11, 2010 7:21 am

Fossilfuleburner wrote:08Datsun, love your off-roading pics. Wish my PF was 4wd.

I used this write up on Titantalk to install my trans temp gauge, http://www.titantalk.com/forums/titan-f ... e-kit.html

The sender is installed on the transmission pressure test port on the passenger side of the transmission. People from other forums report that temperatures at the test port reflect pan temperatures.

Here's an old pic I took after it was installed.
Its an Autometer gauge

I installed a 10" Hayden fan (p/n 3670). The best prices were actually at my local auto parts stores. Kragen O'reily has it for $50 and $55 at Pepboys. Specs can be found here, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HDA-3670/

Instructions on the Hayden website, http://www.haydenauto.com/Installation- ... ntent.aspx

Hope this info is helpful for anyone interested in installing a trans temp gauge or fan
Thats slick dude. Thanks for the really good info. I will be installing the temp gauge this summer, as well as the fan.

Quick question, you mentioned that 180F was way too hot for tranmissions. In the standard setup, the water/oil cooler is 'cooling' the tranny oil using 180-210F water. Then it goes through the oil/air cooler on the front, but only gets real airflow when the vehicle is moving.

The above being the case, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that trans oil temps at the outlet are well over 200F under the standard setup?

I'm all for reducing the operating temp of the trans and thereby increasing transmission life and oil life. I am also really interested in what the actual temps are. But I am wondering if the acceptable range you mentioned shouldn't be a little higher.

Thoughts?
t

NVRDONE
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Location: seattle

Postby NVRDONE » Tue May 11, 2010 12:27 pm

I tow a 19' cuddy cabin boat that's 4200 # on the trailer. No problems so far.
I've thought about installing a large capacity trans pan & temp guage. I'd be interested in details.
Fosslefuelburner: What lake is that ramp at or is it in the Delta ? I grew up in Hayward & skied alot of lake in N.cal.

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Budrbean
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Postby Budrbean » Tue May 11, 2010 12:45 pm

Ok my arm has been twisted. I have a temp gauge and 10 inch fan on order now. Id rather be safe than sorry since I bypassed the radiator. Just gotta figure out if I wanna do a switch or some fancy thermostat setup. Only thing I dont like about the thermostat deal is that they all kick in around 180 degrees....Id like it to kick in about 10 degrees cooler, so I may just opt for the switch.

Hey Fossil,
Did you have to drill a hole for the gauge or does the plastic cover pop out and happen to be the correct size?

Fossilfuleburner
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Location: San Jose, CA

Postby Fossilfuleburner » Tue May 11, 2010 5:36 pm

wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that trans oil temps at the outlet are well over 200F under the standard setup?
Disallow, I totally agree. The high-side of the trans temperature at the output of the transmission and before the coolers is probably around 230 when I’m reading 180 on the low-side. I’m purely guessing here. I’ve always wondered what the temperature difference is. How many degrees can the radiator and trans cooler drop the temperature? I don’t think it could be more than 50 degrees if we assume the radiator is 200 degrees, the trans cooler is somewhere between outside air temp and the low-side of the trans fluid and taking into account the short amount of time it takes the fluid to circulate back to the pan.

To be honest, my earlier mentioned 180 is probably the bottom of the safe range. I get a little nervous anytime my trans temps hits the 180 mark.

I researched and wrestled with what the best location for the sender would be. I considered the transmission output because it gives the highest readings. However, it would be sensitive to spikes as the TC locks and unlocks and to me, doesn’t give me a true reading of the long-term, cumulative temperature of ALL the fluid. It gives an instantaneous reading on a small amount of fluid that stays at that temperature for a short period of time. Long-term temperature rise is what deteriorates the fluid and will show at the pan. Most transmission shops install the sender in the pan. And factory installed transmission senders are located in the transmission or the pan, not on the high side. I tried to find out where Allison Transmission installs their sender but wasn’t able to. Where you install will depend on what numbers are most meaningful to you.

Did you have to drill a hole for the gauge or does the plastic cover pop out and happen to be the correct size?
The hole and switches are pretty standard sizes. My gauge and switch fit perfectly.
What lake is that ramp at or is it in the Delta ?
Lake Anderson in Morgan Hill

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disallow
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Postby disallow » Tue May 11, 2010 7:27 pm

Budrbean wrote: Only thing I dont like about the thermostat deal is that they all kick in around 180 degrees....Id like it to kick in about 10 degrees cooler, so I may just opt for the switch.
The 3653 kit says its adjustable from 32 to 248 F....

Fossilfuleburner
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Postby Fossilfuleburner » Tue May 11, 2010 8:29 pm

I liked the idea of the switch cause it gives me full control. I like turning it on and knowing its on rather than guessing that it should be on cause the temp is 180.... to go one step further, I can even pre-cool my tranny fluid if I'll towing a route I know. For example if I know there's some hills ahead and my trans temp always gets high there.

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Budrbean
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Postby Budrbean » Wed May 12, 2010 6:32 am

Yeah Im thinking Ill go that route too. I figure I wont need it very often unless im towing or in very slow stop and go traffic. That way I can just kick it on when needed. Just need to make sure I hook it to a circuit that goes off with the ignition incase I forget and leave it on. Where did you tap your power from?

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Budrbean
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Postby Budrbean » Wed May 12, 2010 6:41 am

disallow wrote:
Budrbean wrote: Only thing I dont like about the thermostat deal is that they all kick in around 180 degrees....Id like it to kick in about 10 degrees cooler, so I may just opt for the switch.
The 3653 kit says its adjustable from 32 to 248 F....
Depends on which one you read. According to JC Whitney its only adjustable beginning at 170 (which would be perfect for me). However according to reviews, they are cheaply made and are not weathersealed so everyone has problems with them blowing a fuse in rainy weather. Ill just go with a switch I think.

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disallow
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Postby disallow » Wed May 12, 2010 6:53 am

Budrbean wrote:
disallow wrote:
Budrbean wrote: Only thing I dont like about the thermostat deal is that they all kick in around 180 degrees....Id like it to kick in about 10 degrees cooler, so I may just opt for the switch.
The 3653 kit says its adjustable from 32 to 248 F....
Depends on which one you read. According to JC Whitney its only adjustable beginning at 170 (which would be perfect for me). However according to reviews, they are cheaply made and are not weathersealed so everyone has problems with them blowing a fuse in rainy weather. Ill just go with a switch I think.
Nothing a little silicone won't fix.

Only reason I don't want to go the switch route is that my wife drives this thing. I drive when we are towing, but I don't need her worrying about watching some gauge and having to flick a switch when it gets to a certain temp.

For that matter, ever FFB noted that he took his eyes off of the gauge for a while. No, I think a thermostat is the way to go....

t

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BMXPath
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Location: Texas!

Postby BMXPath » Wed May 12, 2010 7:32 am

Here are a few things I have towed...

This happens quite often. My custom bike rack that will hold 5 bikes and a folded pop-up canopy.
Image

Moving back to Texas from NC.
Image

Hauling a bmx starting gate from Houston to Austin. 24 foot gate on an 18 foot trailer.
Image

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Budrbean
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Postby Budrbean » Wed May 12, 2010 8:12 am

I see your point and theres a good chance I may change my mind later. Im just thinking with every day driving I wont even need the fan. Most likely when Im towing, and for now I have nothing to tow :cry:

NVRDONE
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Location: seattle

Postby NVRDONE » Wed May 12, 2010 11:59 am

I tow a 19' boat that weighs 4200 # wet with the trailer. No problems towing it other than keeping down to a legal speed.
I'd like details on the trans temp guage. I'm thinking about installing a deeper trans pan.
Fosslefuelburner: Where is that ramp at? In the Delta? I grew up in Hayward & skiied alot of lakes in N.CA.


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