Both suggestions are good. Just depends which one you'd like to go with and how much you'd like to spend.

Swapping out a radiator is the easier more cost effective solution. External oil cooler you'll have to have custom lines, mounting brackets, and I would install an oil temp gauge to monitor also. At the end of the day, if either solution fails(radiator leak or external cooler/hose damage or leak)...your transmission is a goner.

palmerwindwmd and silverarrow27,

Thanks for these additional responses and information. That may be just what I needed to help get me off the fence.

Palmerwindwmd,

That's a great point that you had made earlier and confirmed again in your last response that other makes and models would have this issue if faulty radiators were still a problem. Clearly it's not, as I've never heard of any of these vehicles (audi toyota VW mercedes Chevy) having this problem.

Silverarrow27,

I didn't realize that if an external cooler kit failed, that the transmission would still be a goner. If the transmission would be a goner either way, then to me there wouldn't even be much of a reason to go with an external cooler kit as the only reason that I was really considering an external cooler kit was because I thought that at least with an external cooler, the transmission couldn't be ruined as SMOD could not possibly happen.

1) Now, when you said that if the external cooler failed, then the transmission would still be a goner, is that because SMOD could still occur or would that be due to overheating, or something else?

2) Also, if the transmission being a goner would be due to overheating, then would an oil temperature gauge help prevent overheating, or would you have to have a gauge to monitor the transmission fluid temperature?

3) And would doing either one or both of these (oil temperature gauge and transmission fluid temperature gauge) keep the transmission from overheating and thereby prevent the transmission from being ruined?

KFB wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:43 pm

palmerwindwmd and silverarrow27,

Thanks for these additional responses and information. That may be just what I needed to help get me off the fence.

Palmerwindwmd,

That's a great point that you had made earlier and confirmed again in your last response that other makes and models would have this issue if faulty radiators were still a problem. Clearly it's not, as I've never heard of any of these vehicles (audi toyota VW mercedes Chevy) having this problem.

Silverarrow27,

I didn't realize that if an external cooler kit failed, that the transmission would still be a goner. If the transmission would be a goner either way, then to me there wouldn't even be much of a reason to go with an external cooler kit as the only reason that I was really considering an external cooler kit was because I thought that at least with an external cooler, the transmission couldn't be ruined as SMOD could not possibly happen.

1) Now, when you said that if the external cooler failed, then the transmission would still be a goner, is that because SMOD could still occur or would that be due to overheating, or something else?

2) Also, if the transmission being a goner would be due to overheating, then would an oil temperature gauge help prevent overheating, or would you have to have a gauge to monitor the transmission fluid temperature?

3) And would doing either one or both of these (oil temperature gauge and transmission fluid temperature gauge) keep the transmission from overheating and thereby prevent the transmission from being ruined?

I feel free to take it and run with it even though it was addressed to the other gentleman.

1) Only due to overheat

2) We have a ATF temp warning light for tranny overheats on this platform from a certain model year on.
In XTerras it was only added in '10 or '11 model years so not sure about your 08 Frontier.

3) Those extra gauges would certainly help.
The Titans with the tow packages actually have Transmission temp gauges not just warning lights (after a certain model year it may have been aded even w/o tow package but am not sure)

Either way.. we are flogging a dead horse here.
Replace the radiator already.
It' is the proven best solution.
Also then then u have 2 coolers, the heatexchnager inside the radiator and the small external stock tranny cooler.

It's not all that expensive too.

1) Now, when you said that if the external cooler failed, then the transmission would still be a goner, is that because SMOD could still occur or would that be due to overheating, or something else? It would be if you had a damage or leaking external cooler/hoses, you'd be leaking transmission fluid resulting due to an overheated and burnt/dried up transmission. Chances are slim for this to happen just like the radiator solution though. I was just letting you know the external cooler has it's issues too.

2) Also, if the transmission being a goner would be due to overheating, then would an oil temperature gauge help prevent overheating, or would you have to have a gauge to monitor the transmission fluid temperature? An oil temperature gauge would help you keep an eye. As with most factory gauges & lights, I've always found that there is "normal" and then you're "SOL" when the lights come on. If you can get a good baseline of what your normal everyday driving/towing temps are, you'll know when your oil temperature is running abnormally high or low so you can stop and check for any issues.

3) And would doing either one or both of these (oil temperature gauge and transmission fluid temperature gauge) keep the transmission from overheating and thereby prevent the transmission from being ruined? When I said oil temperature gauge, I meant an oil temperature gauge for your transmission. Gauges are universal and they're not specifically made for the engine or transmission per se. You would install the gauge for whichever one you'd like to monitor or a gauge for each one if you want. It's personal preference.

Good luck with whichever solution you go with. There's no wrong or right here. I find replacing the radiator less time consuming and straightforward with less work involved and that's the usual reason why 99.9% of owners of these vehicles go with the radiator solution.

palmerwmd and silverarrow27,

1) Sorry for not replying to your posts sooner as I really appreciate both of you for again taking the time to respond to my questions and concerns with great answers and information. I've been pretty busy lately and just haven't had the time to get back on here like I wanted to. Palmerwmd, as far as your statement, "I feel free to take it and run with it even though it was addressed to the other gentleman." goes, it was actually meant for either or both of you, so I am very glad that you chose to run with it and silverarrow27 as well. I was already leaning toward replacing the radiator after some of your initial responses to my questions, but after reading both of your responses now, that's what I'm planning on doing. While it sounds like there are pros and cons for both options, I like the idea of having the cooling system operate as Nissan originally designed and intended it to, and the fact that that is what the vast majority of others are doing along with the fact that I've never heard of this happening with other makes and models that are using the same type of system.

2) My only other issues are which radiator to get and who to have do the work. Several options for which brand to get have been mentioned here, and a local mechanic friend of mine also mentioned Denzo and Koyo, so I'm going to do a little research on all recommendations to see which one I like best. I've heard of Koyo, and I believe from this forum somewhere.

3) My last issue is who to have install the new radiator. Although this is more of a legal question, I'm wondering if I have the dealership do it with an OEM or Value Advantage radiator, IF SMOD would ever occur due to the new radiator failing (even though it shouldn't), would there then be liability on the part of the dealership to cover any resulting damage including fixing or replacing the now-fried transmission? And if so, would that depend on the new radiator still being under warranty at the time that event happened? To me it seems likely that the dealership would deny liability for covering anything other than the radiator itself, and even then it would only likely cover the radiator itself IF it were still under warranty. I'm not an attorney, so I'm just surmising; I don't know. If there are any attorney's on here who know the answer to these questions, please feel free to respond.

4) At this point, I've gotten great answers, information, and responses to pretty much all of my questions thanks to all of you, and I think that you all have told me about everything you possibly could about this, so I'm not really asking for additional information unless someone would happen to know about the legal issues I mentioned above. That said, I would certainly welcome any additional thoughts, information, or comments about any of this if you have any and feel like posting. I mainly just wanted to thank you all again and to let you know where I am with this. I will keep you posted with my thoughts and progress, and any other questions, if I have any as I work toward fixing this problem. Thanks again guys!

KFB wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:48 pm

palmerwmd and silverarrow27,

1) Sorry for not replying to your posts sooner as I really appreciate both of you for again taking the time to respond to my questions and concerns with great answers and information. I've been pretty busy lately and just haven't had the time to get back on here like I wanted to. Palmerwmd, as far as your statement, "I feel free to take it and run with it even though it was addressed to the other gentleman." goes, it was actually meant for either or both of you, so I am very glad that you chose to run with it and silverarrow27 as well. I was already leaning toward replacing the radiator after some of your initial responses to my questions, but after reading both of your responses now, that's what I'm planning on doing. While it sounds like there are pros and cons for both options, I like the idea of having the cooling system operate as Nissan originally designed and intended it to, and the fact that that is what the vast majority of others are doing along with the fact that I've never heard of this happening with other makes and models that are using the same type of system.

2) My only other issues are which radiator to get and who to have do the work. Several options for which brand to get have been mentioned here, and a local mechanic friend of mine also mentioned Denzo and Koyo, so I'm going to do a little research on all recommendations to see which one I like best. I've heard of Koyo, and I believe from this forum somewhere.

3) My last issue is who to have install the new radiator. Although this is more of a legal question, I'm wondering if I have the dealership do it with an OEM or Value Advantage radiator, IF SMOD would ever occur due to the new radiator failing (even though it shouldn't), would there then be liability on the part of the dealership to cover any resulting damage including fixing or replacing the now-fried transmission? And if so, would that depend on the new radiator still being under warranty at the time that event happened? To me it seems likely that the dealership would deny liability for covering anything other than the radiator itself, and even then it would only likely cover the radiator itself IF it were still under warranty. I'm not an attorney, so I'm just surmising; I don't know. If there are any attorney's on here who know the answer to these questions, please feel free to respond.

4) At this point, I've gotten great answers, information, and responses to pretty much all of my questions thanks to all of you, and I think that you all have told me about everything you possibly could about this, so I'm not really asking for additional information unless someone would happen to know about the legal issues I mentioned above. That said, I would certainly welcome any additional thoughts, information, or comments about any of this if you have any and feel like posting. I mainly just wanted to thank you all again and to let you know where I am with this. I will keep you posted with my thoughts and progress, and any other questions, if I have any as I work toward fixing this problem. Thanks again guys!

1) Thanks for the kind words brother we are all in this journey together, with our enthusiasm for Nissan products

2) yes Koyorad come well recommended by people whose judgment I trust.
I've always been partial to Griffin radiators but thats just emotional and anecdotal. I trust smj's recommendations for Koyorad (and he may have mentioned Denso as well)

3) your car is past the warranty period.
I do not believe you will engage extra benefit in this manner by doing it via dealer in term of warranty against SMOD. Just warranty for the rad itself.
The most important thing is to get a good radiator and have it done well.
Make sure you get new hoses too as long as you are in there its almost free labor at this point (I know u are low miles but age matters too.. )
The advantage of having it done at dealer they always use quality parts and have done the job for this platform before.
The disadvantage is the dealer charges much higher rates for parts and labor than an independent , even one that is well reputed, so this is what I have come to use.
There would be 1 yr(I believe) warranty from the dealer on the rad.. but some of the aftermarkets have much longer warranties.

4) If you want to check out what I do, to have a older vehicle reconditioned to near as-new, check here about a rig I just bought used:
topic20975.html

I can vouch for Koyo radiators, have had the same one on my 240sx for about 20 years now.

Palmerwmd and Silverarrow27,

1) You're very welcome, and thank you for the kind words as well and also for taking the time to respond, both you and silverarrow27. Silverarrow27, thanks for the Koyo recommendation. I'm checking that one out too. Again, you guys have really been a tremendous help as I now feel like I really understand the issue and have some real direction. Just trying to work out the last few details: which radiator and who to install it?

2) Still a little torn as to whether to use a dealership or an independent service. I agree that from a liability standpoint for a new transmission, I don't think that using a dealer would really help IF (Heaven forbid) the new radiator turned out to be defective and allowed SMOD. The only way that might fly would be if the new radiator was a Nissan-recommended radiator (likely OEM or Value Advantage) and it was still under warranty at the time SMOD occurred. That said, I agree with what you stated about the advantages and disadvantages of using a dealership. When you said "that is what you have come to use," did you mean that you use a dealership yourself?

3) I've gotten some great suggestions on radiators but still a little torn on that as well. I've been doing some research, and initially Denso sounded pretty good with almost no problems or issues noted, but then I began to find some things where several people had had some bad experiences with them. One person even mentioned four consecutive radiators having issues, but some of that may have been damage from shipping; but still, even if a radiator is great, if you can't get it shipped to you without damage, it doesn't do you much good. Some said these are made in Taiwan and and the Koyo's are made in China, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but the implication seemed to be some question about quality due to that, but agin that may just be speculation given that a number of folks on here including silverarrow27 had good things to say about Koyo. Also, no matter how good a product is, there are always some who have a bad experience with it, not matter what it is. It could also be possible that the manufacturer or manufacturing process has changed. Just throwing out possibilities. Both Denso and Koyo were recommended quite a bit. I also came across Mashimoto, which while fairly expensive, seemed to be pretty good, but it doesn't seem to be as well-know as the others (Koyo and Denso, etc.). Thoughts on Mashimoto, if any?

4) I'm going to research radiators some more, and process the dealership vs. independent shop a little more as well. Again, I think you guys have given me about as much information as you can, and only I can decide. However, that said, I'm still and always open to any additional thoughts, comments, suggestions, etc.. Thanks, and I'll keep you posted.

5) Now, about that sweet ride you've got! That 2008 Pathfinder looks great! It sounds like you put a little money into it but got exactly what you wanted, and it sounds like it runs like a top (for a fraction of the price of new one. You can't beat that! That's a great picture too with all of the snow--just beautiful. I'm assuming that is near where you live? It looks similar to where I live as well, although we don't have snow right now.

If I recall correctly, my Koyo from 20 years ago was either Made in USA or Japan. I'm not so sure about now though so what you have found about it currently being made in China may hold true.

As for Mishimoto, they're really popular with the import car scene for radiators and intercooler kits. I haven't come across anything bad about Mishimoto yet. In the last 5 yrs or so, it's become a big household name.

I think there doesn't have to be so much thought put into selecting a radiator. The biggest decision is whether one wants to go with a plastic tank radiator or an all-aluminum radiator. Griffin is a good choice for all-aluminum. The majority of plastic-tanked radiators are made in China and I haven't heard of any cooler failures in any of them. Spectra Premium has been a very popular choice among the plastic-tanked choices, but if your shopping at Rockauto, the $83 CSF or the $106 OSC unit with the larger cooler would be the ones I'd be looking at. FYI, my Koyorad was made in Japan.

silverarrow27

Thanks for letting my know about Koyo and Mishimoto.

smj999smj,

Thanks for your input. Yes, I think you're probably right about me overthinking which radiator to get, but I just want do my best to make sure I get what I think is the best one for me. See you raised the issue about aluminum vs. plastic, and I don't really have a clue about the pros and cons of each, so I'm not even sure which one I would want. I'll do an internet search, but as one of the resident pro's around here, if you wouldn't mind to give me a quick lesson about that I would certainly appreciate it as this is all new to me. I'd also be curious which ones (plastic or aluminum?) most people seem to prefer and why if you know.

My main criterion for getting a new radiator, other than maintaining temperature like it should, is the one that would be the least likely to have a problem that would lead to SMOD or some other catastrophic failure of the transmission/engine/vehicle. Even a great warranty doesn't necessarily mean a great product, although presumably they would likely go together. However, company A could make a better product than company B but still not give as good of a warranty as company B. Given that the warranty would likely only cover the radiator, if there was a failure during the warranty period, you might get a new radiator, but if you still have SMOD, you're still SOL with the transmission. And THAT is what I'm really trying to avoid. Given that you haven't heard of any of the plastic ones having any cooler failures in them, then maybe that is what I want/need?

The only radiators that have had known issues with cooler failures have been the factory-installed, Calsonic radiators. While it's possible that ANY radiator with an integral cooler to experience a leak and subsequent cross-contamination problem, those occurrences are typically very rare on the whole.

Most people would prefer the all-aluminum radiator, however, most people purchase the plastic-tanked radiator, which is what comes from the factory on the Pathfinder. The reason is cost; a plastic-tanked radiator can be purchased for under $100 whereas a Griffin all-aluminum radiator is $750. Plastic-tanked radiators will normally last many years, however, as they get older, the plastic can get brittle and crack or break. That's not an issue with an all-aluminum radiator. The all-aluminum radiators also look a lot better!

smj999smj,

Thanks for giving me the rundown; that really helps. It sounds like most, if not all, of the radiators mentioned (Koyo, Spectra, Value Advantage, etc.) other than the Griffin are plastic, and I hadn't realized that. As far as the Griffin, $750, ouch! I can see why most folks are going with the plastic, and that's probably what I'll go with as well then. Given that ANY radiaor could have the internal cooler potentially fail in a way that would cause SMOD even though this should be unlikely considering that the problem is the defective Calsonic radiators, I might as well go with the plastic. It sounds like it's almost a coin toss between Koyo, Spectra, Denso, or Value Advantage. Thanks again to you and everyone else (palmerwmd and silverarrow27) for all of your help and input! I can't thank you guys enough. I'll keep you all posted.

KFB

KFB I am now looking forward to your report of work completed

1) The work hasn't been done yet, but at least I've decided the replacement radiator and the shop that will do the replacement. Based on everyone's input here and input from my local shop owner, I decided to go with a Koyo radiator and a shop where I know the owner and who I've ridden motorcycles with in the past. He said it would be about $600, and he is also going to replace the hoses as well.

2) After seeing a youtube video where the shop owner heats the transmission fluid to check for water in the transmission fluid in determining whether there is SMOD (see video link below), I asked him if he could check the transmission fluid for water by heating it up and seeing whether it boils. He didn't seem to think this was necessary. When I had the local Nissan dealer check it the last time I was there which was the last time I drove the truck (immediately prior to my first post here), they didn't find SMOD, but I am doubtful that they heated the transmission fluid to find evidence of this, although I have nothing to base that on other than the fact that I am wondering whether anyone (or any shop) actually does that. My friend with the shop said that SMOD would be pretty obvious and as long as I hadn't noticed any transmission problems (slipping, etc.), then there shouldn't be a problem. The issue for me is that I'm not too crazy about "shouldn't be" and "probably," etc.. I want to make sure there is no issue.

3) Here is the link to the youtube video where the shop owner heats the transmission fluid to check for water in the transmission fluid in determining whether there is SMOD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KSRkFUNqyI

4) So, I am wondering whether this is really necessary to check for SMOD? Response from anyone who would like to answer would be great, and I would particularly like to hear from smj999smj given his past Nissan tech experience.

5) Finally, when I initially took my Fronty in to the dealer a couple months ago to check for SMOD, I didn't pay the service/inspection fee because I had intended to have the dealership do the work. I had expected to pay it but asked if this fee could then be deducted from the cost of the fix once they fixed the truck. They then didn't charge me this fee apparently based on my question and the fact that I had initially intended to have them do the work. Because of this, I feel like I should probably go back and pay them that fee. While no-one can decide for me, and everyone has their own moral compass, I am curious of others' opinions, so if anyone would like to offer an opinion, feel free.